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Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

workspaceupdates.googleblog.com

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Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#491

Post by slver »

tablespoon wrote: post #483
burlesona wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for what it’s worth, “word processors” are a logical starting point specifically because the APIs for text manipulation in the DOM are abysmal, and every in-browser WYSIWYG text editor is a steaming pile of hacks. Some of them work well despite this, but, it’s a horrible set of code to maintain and very, very hard to make a good user experience. One of the very hardest things to do well in the browser, actually.…

> Just for what it’s worth, “word processors” are a logical starting point specifically because the APIs for text manipulation in the DOM are abysmal, and every in-browser WYSIWYG text editor is a steaming pile of hacks. If that's the case, it probably would have been better to standardize some better APIs.

You assume the developers of Google Docs are the developers of Chrome and WHATWG

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#492

Post by gentleman11 »

dahfizz wrote: post #181
sgt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bad thing in terms of openness but a good thing in terms of performance and making web applications more like real desktop applications. A lot of DOM work is a nightmare, so I sort of welcome to the Canvas based approach.

> making web applications more like real desktop applications. Web developers are the only people who actually want this. Its not something that would benefit society / users.

“As a user, I want my apps developers to have a good experience” - a scrum task

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#493

Post by mattgreenrocks »

brabel wrote: post #444
mrighele wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite their shortcomings webapps won because they had a number of advantages that native lacked, most of all software distribution. What has flutter to offer that a regular webapp lacks? (not performance, it seems)

The fact that it (the same code base with minor changes) runs on desktop and mobile platforms?

Great point. It is striking to me how similar many of the modern languages are for various platforms (thinking of Rust, Kotlin, and Swift here), but it is still quite difficult to share business logic among web, Android, and iOS devices because of language differences.

If Dart/Flutter is good enough for all of those platforms, that is quite the value proposition.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#494

Post by capitainenemo »

nindalf wrote: post #472
stefan_ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Flutter on the web is, by the way. You can try it out here: https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/ and marvel at the impossible to select text, one of the many affordances violently excised here. If it wasn't still incredibly slow even on a cutting-edge Zen3, Nvidia 3070 system they might almost be on to something here.

Or we could take a look at the example Google Doc linked in TFA - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N1XaAI4ZlCUHNWJBXJUBFjxS... Seems like it's fast (on my machine at least), can select text and Ctrl+F works. I totally understand the urge to complain and doom say, but could we at least stick to the example at hand? I'm sure if you went through this doc you'd find things to complain about. That would be more relevan…

After trying it for a few seconds, noticed X select-to-copy was broken, as well as the browser spellcheck feature that my daughter relies on heavily in Google Docs (where a text area can be spellchecked in french or english depending on the active spellcheck).

I didn't spend more than a few seconds on it, but those were the features I immediately noticed. This is going to be a painful transition for us since she uses both of those a great deal with her schoolwork. Since the doc was read-only, I couldn't test IME/XCompose - hopefully those work at least.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#495

Post by anthropodie »

birktj wrote: post #280
stefan_ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Flutter on the web is, by the way. You can try it out here: https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/ and marvel at the impossible to select text, one of the many affordances violently excised here. If it wasn't still incredibly slow even on a cutting-edge Zen3, Nvidia 3070 system they might almost be on to something here.

That is absolutely horrible. I am only waiting for the day when people start making desktop apps using electron + Flutter on the web.

Flutter for web I don't know where it will be in 5 years but flutter for desktop is going to eat electron apps for sure.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#496

Post by remram »

kroltan wrote: post #134
remram wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do your users care about your app looking the same or do they care about their browser looking and acting like a browser? Moving to canvas is sure to break many features such as text selection, adblocking, and accessibility. All in the name of more controls over the pixels? Are you truly doing it for the users?

Very good point, users do not care that a padding is rounded up or down when they switch from their laptop to their desktop, as long as the application is usable, understandable and visually competent. But mindspace is much more important for interaction, so if their laptop is a Mac, their brain will be in "Mac mode", and "Linux" or "Windows" mode when on their other device. Respecting the platform's conventions will…

I don't think the GP was talking about the app looking consistent with the rest of the platform, but the exact opposite: the app looking the same whatever the platform. Using Flutter allows them to have the app look the same on the browser as on mobile.

This means that at best it will look "Mac mode" for everyone, including Windows users; at worst it will look foreign to everyone.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#497

Post by gentleman11 »

slimsag wrote: post #299
ballenf wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WASM plus encryption will mean it could be illegal to decrypt/alter website code just like a Netflix video stream. Adblock criminalization is close.

Have no fear, for the ads ARE already here. * Want to watch YouTube ad-free on an iPhone? We've blocked every possible way unless you want to pay us - and we're still gonna spy on you. * Not a fan of ads while watching TV? Well, tough luck. They're injected by the TV manufacturer. * Want to pay for your content? Feel free to subscribe to Hulu, just don't expect ads to go away. * Tired of seeing ads in Twitch? Well, A…

I stopped watching twitch after Amazon took over. They changed it, it’s so aggressive and full of little dark patterns and micro rewards now to try and hook people

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#498

Post by slver »

ape4 wrote: post #257
stefan_ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Flutter on the web is, by the way. You can try it out here: https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/ and marvel at the impossible to select text, one of the many affordances violently excised here. If it wasn't still incredibly slow even on a cutting-edge Zen3, Nvidia 3070 system they might almost be on to something here.

A dystopia. You can't control-F in the page. Can't copy and paste a word you don't know into a translator or dictionary. Can't share text unofficially - like copy a sentence into a email, etc.

Do you honestly believe they won’t implement copying a sentence.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#499

Post by twistedpair »

pdkl95 wrote: post #99

Ever since WebAssembly was first introduced, I thought it was obvious[1][2] that the end game for those that want to control the web is sending opaque binary blobs of code that only use the browser for the canvas tag's framebuffer. Font rendering and layout can all easily be accomplished by embedding libraries like freetype. This breaks all forms of user control - like ad blockers - and turns the web back into cable…

> I didn't expect the first move towards canvas-only rendering to be traditional wordprocessors.

Google Maps moved to Canvas/WebGL years ago. It's not the first move.

Re: Google Docs will now use canvas based rendering

#500

Post by MaxBarraclough »

sethhochberg wrote: post #225
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The primary reason web apps are slow is because the business logic is typically un-optimized. This crops up a lot, shifting the blame from the web technologies to the developers who target those technologies, but where are the exceptions? What's the best example of a large, complex, efficient and responsive web-based application? It's easy to give examples of tragically inefficient and unresponsive web-based applic…

Figma is one of my favorite examples of something which is a nontrivial webapp that avoid feeling like a webapp a lot of the time, even when running in a browser instead of their Electron wrapper. But their technical leadership contains some of the (arguably) most accomplished folks working in the Javascript world these days, they might be an outlier in this area.

How is it on resource-usage though?

Another example: Google Docs seems ok on responsiveness, but not on efficiency (especially memory).

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