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Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

theguardian.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#71

Post by oceanplexian »

ptsneves wrote: post #33
rawtxapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the case for pretty much all exchanges? How is that different than in the stock market?

The stock market has other mechanism of value creation, one of them that the company distributes dividends which is money outside the stock market. Companies also use it to fund themselves to grow. It is not a zero sum game. Crypto currency is a zero sum game and i think this is what OP was implyining.

> The stock market has other mechanism of value creation, one of them that the company distributes dividends which is money outside the stock market.

I'm not sure I would describe high-flying tech stocks with no dividends, trading at 30-70 times earnings as much different. How many investors are really snapping up these stocks because they're sold on the 30+ year value proposition?

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#72

Post by WA »

botman_ wrote: post #41
rawtxapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the case for pretty much all exchanges? How is that different than in the stock market?

This is only the case for pump&dump schemes. In case of a sustained growth of a company (think Apple over the past 20 years) what the shareholders gain comes from the earnings of the company. Apple shareholders have gained trillions in the past years - no one has lost an equivalent amount.

Yes, sustained growth of Apple over the past 20 years makes buying Apple stock an investment. Shareholder gains come either from dividends or stock buybacks (which is kinda the same), but not every uptick in the stock price is because of value creation.

Some stock price movements are also zero-sum. Active trading is zero-sum.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#73

Post by SwimSwimHungry »

nly wrote: post #61
SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wager once people have to start going back to work and all the free government money dries up, there will be a run on crypto to realize their gains en-masse, and this will trigger a massive wipe out for many latecomers. Frankly, cryptocurrency being invented and created was a huge mistake for society at large. I hope the comeuppance isn't super destructive outside of cryptocurrency circles.

> I hope the comeuppance isn't super destructive outside of cryptocurrency circles. This is one of my concerns too. I sock away a healthy % of my income in to traditional investments, and I aspire to one day own a home I can raise a family in. The current asset bubble, which I personally believe is the wedge driving cryptocurrency apart from reality, is really hurting those of us with these rather mundane aspirations…

I wish you well and all the best, nly. I hope we get out of this relatively unscathed.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#74

Post by baby »

lottin wrote: post #63
rawtxapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the case for pretty much all exchanges? How is that different than in the stock market?

> How is that different than in the stock market? Stock holders own the underlying business and businesses do create wealth—all the inputs that are used in making a product are worth less that the product itself.

How do businesses create wealth?

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#75

Post by tinco »

ptsneves wrote: post #33
rawtxapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the case for pretty much all exchanges? How is that different than in the stock market?

The stock market has other mechanism of value creation, one of them that the company distributes dividends which is money outside the stock market. Companies also use it to fund themselves to grow. It is not a zero sum game. Crypto currency is a zero sum game and i think this is what OP was implyining.

I'd be totally with you until 2 years ago. Now I'm not so certain. Can you truly look at TSLA and say that there's value creation behind that valuation? Or GME? And frankly, the dollar?

And if it's not the case for these pathetic cases, what does that say about the rest?

BTW I'm not arguing the dollar is worthless, especially not when compared to crypto, obviously the dollar has a lot more use than Bitcoin. But look at what rich people / money managers are doing with their dollars. If a Saudi prince is buying a painting by a student of Da Vinci for 450 billion dollars, what does that really say about the value of the dollar?

Things are not what they seem, I guess it's always been the case that quantities of money don't scale linearly in value but it seems particularly true today. And whatever is going on, it is foolish to dismiss cryptocurrency based on something that's not true for securities and not even for other currency.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#76

Post by SwimSwimHungry »

midasuni wrote: post #58
SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, it seems to me like this may be a case of having some insider knowledge or knowing ahead of time that the coordinated pump and dump was going to occur. Any rational person would have looked at DOGE over the past however many years and seen it for the true joke it was. It barely made any meaningful movement on pricing until very recently. I can understand if someone may have mined it for fun and forgot about…

Any rational person sees the market is irrational. Putting $10 on dodge back in January, or on spiffcoin today, is no different to putting $10 on a horse at the 3.15, except the excitement probably lasts longer. The bookie wins on aggregate, but you are buying the hope and excitement and that has value.

Fair enough. My suspicions could be bunk and this GS employee really just made a leap of faith Hail Mary pass and won this way.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#77

Post by itsdsmurrell »

prog5 wrote: post #47
reader_mode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto could easily be the largest pyramid scheme in history, I have zero interest in participating even if returns were guaranteed - that's not how I want to make money, I see no value being created in these "investments". Recent developments on the stock market kind of killed the market idealism for me. I don't know what's a better alternative, but from where I'm standing the financial system is rewarding wasteful…

But isn't there value being created in actual legitimate blockchain projects like Filecoin and Storj (dropbox replacements)? For these slower growing coins, isn't the value coming from the utility of the product?

Yes, many people miss this. It's meant to replace banks and provide an alternate system of money. I have my hopes on Bitcoin Cash for this.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#78

Post by klodolph »

DocTomoe wrote: post #65
ptsneves wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock market has other mechanism of value creation, one of them that the company distributes dividends which is money outside the stock market. Companies also use it to fund themselves to grow. It is not a zero sum game. Crypto currency is a zero sum game and i think this is what OP was implyining.

I was under the impression that dividends were essentially forced value selloffs, given that stock prices drop the exact amount of the dividend the moment it is paid. How is value created during dividend payment?

To flip it around, the stock had a higher price to begin with because it is expected to pay dividends. I don’t think anyone is saying that the dividends themselves are what creates value.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#79

Post by joosters »

DocTomoe wrote: post #65
ptsneves wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock market has other mechanism of value creation, one of them that the company distributes dividends which is money outside the stock market. Companies also use it to fund themselves to grow. It is not a zero sum game. Crypto currency is a zero sum game and i think this is what OP was implyining.

I was under the impression that dividends were essentially forced value selloffs, given that stock prices drop the exact amount of the dividend the moment it is paid. How is value created during dividend payment?

Value is created by the company making profits. How it uses those profits, whether by paying out dividends, buying back stock, or investing in the business, is mostly irrelevant to the value creation part.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#80

Post by baby »

movedx wrote: post #51
reader_mode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto could easily be the largest pyramid scheme in history, I have zero interest in participating even if returns were guaranteed - that's not how I want to make money, I see no value being created in these "investments". Recent developments on the stock market kind of killed the market idealism for me. I don't know what's a better alternative, but from where I'm standing the financial system is rewarding wasteful…

> Crypto could easily be the largest pyramid scheme in history, I have zero interest in participating even if returns were guaranteed - that's not how I want to make money, I see no value being created in these "investments". Yes! Exactly! I have a friend who's doing well from crypto. He bought an NFT for $800 and it's not worth $8,000. Where is the (social) value in that? Except for the social experimentation this i…

What about people buying time pieces (watches)?
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