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Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

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Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#31

Post by Cadwhisker »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #26
livinginfear wrote: post #24

> "In 2016, the commissioner demanded Facebook stop collecting user data from WhatsApp. In that case, Facebook worked with Germany to iron things out. It does not appear that the social media platform is willing to cooperate this time." This line to me sounds incredibly sinister. For a long time I've been fearmongering about the level of power held by these multinationals approaching those of small states. It sounds…

Germany ist’s a small State. It‘s basically the most powerful nation in Europe. I can‘t see any benefit for Facebook from this. There is a line of thought that Germany decides lots of EU decisions, could we see Facebook banned from the EU? Unlikely, Facebook will probably back down like they did with Austraila, but if things keep escalating after a Germany ban I think an EU ban would be talked about.

Facebook and governments are very experienced at spinning news in a way that makes them look good.

The Australian government was looking for mandatory negotiations with media companies, forcing them to pay for content. They relaxed that "mandatory" clause a bit and added longer periods for notification and negotiation.

In the past year, Facebook has signed revenue-sharing deals with most of the major news platforms in Australia (ongoing) and on Monday of this week, they announced they would be investing $15 million in regional news media. https://www.fool.com.au/2021/05/10/facebook-to-invest-15-mil...

Google has also signed contracts with some of the major media companies.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#32

Post by ChicagoDave »

slibhb wrote: post #20
merb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

block them via dns. most users that are on facebook probably do not know how to go around that block.

Are you suggesting that the German government try to prevent its citizens from using Facebook "for their own good"?

You have to look at Facebook as a national threat.

Ban it. It's the only way.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#33

Post by MisterKent »

Facebook would rather be booted out than remove data collection, because they (probably correctly) have determined that a service like theirs cannot exist without advertising unless a global ban is created.

If they are banned in Europe, the new service will be pay to use in order to generate revenue. In which case, nobody outside Europe would use it. In which case, barely anyone inside Europe would use it.

Facebook knows this, and likely Germany knows this. So, they're really deciding whether they want Facebook or any Facebook like site to exist in Germany. I would be very surprised if Facebook lost this battle.

If you think I'm incorrect, just realize that the only way china was able to get their citizens off of Facebook was to block them entirely. And even then, nobody outside china cares to use their social media platforms.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#34

Post by dheera »

zwaps wrote: post #10
dheera wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR only applies to the EU anyway. They can't enforce GDPR in the US. Facebook can always just close their offices in Germany but still serve their website worldwide, and unless Germany wants to implement a firewall to the likes of China, it will be accessible to German residents. The US needs to implement an equivalent privacy law.

Not quite true. If facebook were to remain usable by EU citizens, it falls under EI jurisdiction. This, too, is part of GDPR and the reason why some US websites simply block EU IP addresses. Of course, they could defy that order as well and hope that their assets are safe elsewhere in the world. Or, you know. their executives have seen enough of Rome and Paris.

I disagree. You could say the same thing about China.

Facebook violates China's content policies. As a result, China blocks Facebook.

Likewise, the EU is welcome to set up a firewall and do the same. Facebook isn't obligated to do anything other than cease operation of local offices.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#35

Post by CGamesPlay »

MisterKent wrote: post #33

Facebook would rather be booted out than remove data collection, because they (probably correctly) have determined that a service like theirs cannot exist without advertising unless a global ban is created. If they are banned in Europe, the new service will be pay to use in order to generate revenue. In which case, nobody outside Europe would use it. In which case, barely anyone inside Europe would use it. Facebook k…

> the new service will be pay to use in order to generate revenue. In which case, nobody outside Europe would use it. In which case, barely anyone inside Europe would use it.

WhatsApp previously was a paid app and had 500 million paying users.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#36

Post by avalys »

plank_time wrote: post #23

How desperate is Facebook for this data that they are willing to ignore governments? Is their business not viable with this information? If it is then maybe Andrew Yang is right and we should be paid for this data too

I think you'd be pretty upset with what would happen to the world if FB was allowed to pay people to use it.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#37

Post by dheera »

msla wrote: post #25
dheera wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR only applies to the EU anyway. They can't enforce GDPR in the US. Facebook can always just close their offices in Germany but still serve their website worldwide, and unless Germany wants to implement a firewall to the likes of China, it will be accessible to German residents. The US needs to implement an equivalent privacy law.

An interesting article: https://web.archive.org/web/20200813235643/http://slawsonand... > Article 3(2), a new feature of the GDPR, creates extraterritorial jurisdiction over companies that have nothing but an internet presence in the EU and offer goods or services to EU residents[1]. While the GDPR requires these companies[2] to follow its data processing rules, it leaves the question of enforcement unanswered. Regul…

> Article 3(2), a new feature of the GDPR, creates extraterritorial jurisdiction over companies that have nothing but an internet presence in the EU and offer goods or services to EU residents[1]. While the GDPR requires these companies[2] to follow its data processing rules, it leaves the question of enforcement unanswered. Regulations that cannot be enforced do little to protect the personal data of EU citizens.

I mean what are they going to do, invade Silicon Valley with their armed forces? It's not really enforceable. They can set up a firewall if they like and censor Facebook, that's the most they can do.

And hee hee, the freedom-loving EU citizens will riot if they try to censor the internet, we all know that :)

Checkmate, GDPR is not enforceable.

The real way to solve the problem is the US should implement its own privacy laws, and preferably better ones than requiring some stupid annoying cookie popups.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#38

Post by mbreese »

arcticbull wrote: post #15
throwaway3699 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sucking up 4% of revenue is catastrophic enough (that is probably double digits of profit). The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company.

> The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company. Why not, out of curiosity? We don't make this distinction for low-income folks who get parking tickets. If you don't make them truly punitive why comply? It just gets factored into the cost of doing business.

Because you want to encourage compliance — encourage the companies to do the right thing. If you make the fine too high, they’ll be scared and try to hide the offense.

But fines and tickets being pegged to income is a good idea. Fixed amounts for fines are really expensive if you don’t make much money. Similarly, they aren’t much of a deterrent if they are a small amount of your income.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#39

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #26
livinginfear wrote: post #24

> "In 2016, the commissioner demanded Facebook stop collecting user data from WhatsApp. In that case, Facebook worked with Germany to iron things out. It does not appear that the social media platform is willing to cooperate this time." This line to me sounds incredibly sinister. For a long time I've been fearmongering about the level of power held by these multinationals approaching those of small states. It sounds…

Germany ist’s a small State. It‘s basically the most powerful nation in Europe. I can‘t see any benefit for Facebook from this. There is a line of thought that Germany decides lots of EU decisions, could we see Facebook banned from the EU? Unlikely, Facebook will probably back down like they did with Austraila, but if things keep escalating after a Germany ban I think an EU ban would be talked about.

Perhaps Facebook believes that the regulator has stepped beyond its legal authority and would prefer to have a court decide the matter? It's a pretty normal thing. Bureaucrats may be powerful, but, in countries I'm familiar with, they are limited by the law in terms of what actions they may take, what justifications they must provide, and the reach of their decisions' force. Facebook appears to be wagering that this decision will not be enforced, presumably due to an insufficiency of one of these factors.

> Unlikely, Facebook will probably back down like they did with Austraila

Also, you're mistaken about what happened here. Australia blinked. Facebook got most of what it wanted. Only then did Facebook unban Australian news.

Re: Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules

#40

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

livinginfear wrote: post #24

> "In 2016, the commissioner demanded Facebook stop collecting user data from WhatsApp. In that case, Facebook worked with Germany to iron things out. It does not appear that the social media platform is willing to cooperate this time." This line to me sounds incredibly sinister. For a long time I've been fearmongering about the level of power held by these multinationals approaching those of small states. It sounds…

"However through all that, there doesn't seem to have been much questioning of the nature of Big Tech's power, only the direction of it application."

Hopefully this will change and more people come to understand that this is an issue.

Here is the press release from HmbDfPI which describes the collection and usage restrictions in more detail:

https://datenschutz-hamburg.de/assets/pdf/2021-05-11-press-r...

The injunction only lasts three months, during which time the Commissioner will bring the matter to the EDPB. There is no guarantee the EDPB will pursue it.

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