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Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

reuters.com

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Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#141

Post by Mountain_Skies »

savant_penguin wrote: post #74

"The iPhone maker said last month it will lose $3 billion to $4 billion in sales in the current quarter ending in June because of the chip shortage," The IPhone maker has $3 to $4 billion in incentives to fund its own factory

True but that also creates vertical integration, which is something that has caused many problems in the past. I'd like to see these huge companies solve their supply chain problems by splitting themselves up, in the process creating the companies they need to supply them, without owning them outright or restricting them from working with others in the market. Basically spin-offs that are designed to be spin-offs from the start.

Since the current stockholders would have shares in existing company and the new entities, they're not being damaged in the process so they shouldn't be opposed unless maximizing vertical integration is their plan for continued wealth growth.

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#142

Post by elevation »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #128
elevation wrote: post #102

Even if this consortium constructs a North American fab, a single natural disaster near that fab could wreak the same follow-on effects in the headlines today; the underlying problem isn't only that we've outsourced our critical manufacturing, but also that we keep so little buffer that any disruption could cause today's headlines. The MBAs running US manufacturers need to scrap their JIT strategies, build some wareh…

Isn't one of the problems that JIT was made to solve that there is a tax on inventory? That the government punishes you for maintaining slack in the manufacturing chain by taxing it?

Yes, tax policy compounds the problem; if you have a warehouse of goods, you're already risking that your tangible goods will be damaged by mold, rodents, fire, severe weather, improper employee handling, theft, or changing market conditions. Now on top of that the IRS treats your inventory as if it's an appreciating asset, and Sarbanes Oxley makes you out to be an enron-class criminal if you claim to hold any value there -- because it's not as easy to audit as other financial instruments as stores of value.

We could definitely retool our regulatory policy if we want to improve our posture in the trade conflict.

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#143

Post by kingsuper20 »

coredog64 wrote: post #96
phkahler wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> To all those saying that those companies can afford it themselves, remember that there are reasons they don't. Automotive chips for example tend to be produced on older nodes, not fancy 14nm and below at TSMC. I'm not talking about SoC used in infotainment but all the micro controllers all over the car. There is really zero incentive for a chip maker to expand capacity of old nodes since they are obsolete in some…

I used to work for OnSemi, so take the following for what you will. On sells a variety of components -- some are completely commodity and are produced in super cheap fabs in Malaysia. Some are mid-tier and are (or were) made at fabs in Phoenix or Pocatello. And some are high-end and come out of the Gresham fabs that they bought when LSI went fabless. There's value in producing the commodity stuff. Obviously they're n…

By having in-country fabs, have you just pushed the problem to some sort of precursor materials or parts?

For that matter, I wonder how a government-subsidized fab could compete with an old overseas fab making lower end parts that has been long-ago paid for?

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#144

Post by dageshi »

vmception wrote: post #67
dageshi wrote: post #41

I feel like in about 4 years time there's going to be a massive bust in chip prices from massive oversupply based on the plans for chip manufacture around the world?

Okay, cool. We can get back on track then instead of randomly pointing fingers at resellers and miners.

You have a point for sure I'm not going to complain if it actually makes graphics cards available.

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#146

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

8note wrote: post #137
elevation wrote: post #102

Even if this consortium constructs a North American fab, a single natural disaster near that fab could wreak the same follow-on effects in the headlines today; the underlying problem isn't only that we've outsourced our critical manufacturing, but also that we keep so little buffer that any disruption could cause today's headlines. The MBAs running US manufacturers need to scrap their JIT strategies, build some wareh…

Business idea: caching layer for kit manufacturing. You have a warehouse that stores stuff, and sells it to manufacturers when JIT runs into issues.

This exists, those are called distributors. Its just that the fluctuations are too large now.

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#147

Post by SXX »

fmakunbound wrote: post #87

Why would firms like TSMC be members of this lobbying group? https://www.chipsinamerica.org/about/

TMSC would be the one of companies building / operating fabs. You can argue it's against Taiwan interests, but again they gonna have more leverage if they own US fabs.

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#148

Post by 8note »

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #29

What are the geopolitical consequence of a de-coupled chip supply chain? Recall TSMC is headquartered in Taiwan, which has been a point of contention in US-China relationship since the 1950s. Please discuss civilly.

I think the main question is how much of the US support for Taiwan comes from the chip supply chain, vs ensuring that china needs american permission to trade

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#149

Post by axiosgunnar »

@dang,

> All: this thread got a flash flood of angry-predictable-obvious comments. Please don't post those! They're really bad for this site. The issue with such points isn't that they're wrong, it's that they're not interesting. Nothing predictable and obvious is. We want interesting conversation here, and that comes from curiosity. If you're feeling agitation rather than curiosity, please wait until that polarity flips.

> The interesting things in a story like this are any diffs from what one would have expected.

>https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

> It's a significant move, so there must be interesting diffs. But sometimes one has to hunt for those, or at least wait for them to occur to one. That sort of waiting is key to getting good HN discussion, which is reflective rather than reflexive.

> https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

What "flash flood of angry-predictable-obvious comments" are you talking about? What would an "obvious" reaction to this news be? I understand if the news was something along the lines "startup incubator for black girls goes live" or something, where you have a divide roughly amongst the line of "let's help the underpriviledged" and "we should see beyond race and gender".

But this news? Could you at least point me to some examples?

Re: Tech giants join call for funding U.S. chip production

#150

Post by dhduusheff »

Couldn't disagree more. We throw tons of money at people who contribute nothing, I've no problem seeing that much money allocated to something worthwhile even if the profits aren't public. The value is the security and the supply chain, it's still more then what we get for helping dregs.
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