Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Sidewalk

amazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

631–640 of 687 posts

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#631

Post by vineyardmike »

_Understated_ wrote: post #173
Swenrekcah wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our only recourse at this point are very strict laws that require all devices that do this to periodically and very explicitly state they are doing so, also providing the option to turn the 'feature' off. The important part then is that failure to comply needs to result in personal liability for retailers, distributors and manufacturers. That second part is the one that will probably never come true but it is the onl…

I disagree... can you honestly tell me that you absolutely require to have an Amazon device? Or a smart TV? I can understand if they were putting microphones into the electrical sockets when your house was being built... you need to have electricity. The solution is don't fucking buy the items... when they see a drop in sales, even a few percent, they'll take notice. Or, god forbid, get your old TV repaired! Mandatin…

Amazon Sidewalk has a huge radius, so many people's neighbors likely have these devices. So if _any_ of your devices talk to them, you have no control even if you don't have an amazon device.

I own amazon devices (none that have sidewalk) but if my neighbors came to me and told me to remove them for their privacy. I'd probably laugh them to the door. I live in a building with 500 units, and its almost 100% chance that i'm within sidewalk range (I also live near to the alexa office in seattle so there's that too).

Point is: You can't control your neighbors.

Not everyone can afford to or wants to move to the middle of no where such that their neighbors are out of radio distance.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#632

Post by vineyardmike »

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #350
dismalpedigree wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried that on my LG tv. The result was a 60 second timeout before I could use the tv when turning it on. I ended up figuring out how to factory reset it and then never set up the wifi. No firmware update, but I don’t care since I only want a dumb monitor.

My advice: connect it to a restricted network, where it can successfully ping home and assert internet connectivity, but everything else (except maybe updates or whatever you want to allow) just fails. A better, more useful approach is to have a DNS server on the home network (something like a pi hole), where all analytics go nowhere, Youtube isn't capable of downloading ads, etc., but you can still use the smart TV…

I thought most TVs overwrote the network dns settings?

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#633

Post by crazygringo »

testific8 wrote: post #495
crazygringo wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm baffled by how positive the HN community was to AirTags, but not to this...? And aren't more networks a good thing? Shouldn't there be another competitor here? Also, I'm not sure where people are getting that Amazon is bad at privacy. Amazon isn't Facebook, nor is it even Google Analytics, nor has it been involved in any user/privacy data scandal I can think of. I mean, most of the criticism of Amazon…

>And aren't more networks a good thing? No, the internet and mesh networks like these are both surveilance networks. Increasing the number of options availiable doesn't really do much if the end result is the same. So tell that to your folks. >Also, I'm not sure where people are getting that Amazon is bad at privacy I think you should forward all your emails, internet traffic, and transaction history to me. Also inst…

The internet isn't a "surveillance network". It's just a network. It's deceptive to just make up terms like that.

Also, what on earth does email or internet traffic have to do with any of this? They use secure protocols in the first place, and they all already rely on large companies like Google and ISP's. And Amazon sure already knows everything I've bought on Amazon.

So I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make here.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#634

Post by dfxm12 »

rhizome wrote: post #618
NathanielK wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist[1]. The pricing is likely out of your budget though. The included ads, large volumes, and low margins all drive down the cost of consumer displays. Your dream might also end up quite expensive. [1] https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/broadcastpromonitors

As noted elsewhere, broadcast hardware has much higher manufacturing and performance requirements, so it's not an apples-to-apples price comparison. I'm sure there's a market for $600 (or $1000) TVs that don't have all the "price-lowering" (I'm skeptical) features of $300 TVs. I mean, maybe the prices of ad-TVs are so low as a loss-leader to get a new advertising vector into your house? Yes, of course TVs already hav…

The last time I bought a TV, >10 years ago, a high end, but not top of the line quality dumb TV was ~$1000. I'd gladly pay that again, especially if I think it's going to last 12 years or so.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#635

Post by vineyardmike »

pb77 wrote: post #484
adreamingsoul wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Smart devices” have been trying to phone home for awhile now. I don’t have any stats or research to cite, but my own evidence from reverse-engineering TVs and other IOT devices. I suspect the business motivation by Amazon is to become the “middleman” between these devices and the manufacture.

Amazon is known to sell the ring data, i suspect this could give amazon more data that they can sell and make more money. It is almost like a mesh tracking in a neighborhood if this is enabled.

I think amazon might be more focused on owning the middleware for smart home devices to improve the features available (compared to say zigbee) and improve the experience... and sell chips to device makers for $$

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#636

Post by vineyardmike »

aasasd wrote: post #407
squarefoot wrote: post #50

So, if I buy a so called Smart-TV (not because I like it but because traditional ones are getting harder to find) but don't set up it on my home network so it can't phone home, it could scan around anyway and find other open devices more than willing to participate in my personal data exfiltration? If the Amazon project succeeds, I would expect in a few months most home devices manufacturers, to partner to implement…

I think I've already heard of TVs connecting to the available open wifi networks.

Any examples? I recall HN convos discussing this as an eventuality but no examples yet.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#637

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

gonehome wrote: post #509
pupdogg wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The controller in my industrial display accepts serial commands for control and has a fairly simple IR remote you can use as well. For customer application, we developed a simple .NET utility that they use to control approx. 240x individual displays at each facility from a single control room. Knowing that RS232 can be controlled using NodeJS these days, I'm sure more creative solutions can be developed for a persona…

I'm not sure why TVs still use IR - haven't all other forms of wireless moved past that to much better performing standards that don't require direction or line of sight? Nobody is pointing their xbox controller at the console.

Because an LED to transmit and a photodiode to receive cost essentially $0.00 at volume. The rest is software.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#638

Post by crazygringo »

badRNG wrote: post #478
crazygringo wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm baffled by how positive the HN community was to AirTags, but not to this...? And aren't more networks a good thing? Shouldn't there be another competitor here? Also, I'm not sure where people are getting that Amazon is bad at privacy. Amazon isn't Facebook, nor is it even Google Analytics, nor has it been involved in any user/privacy data scandal I can think of. I mean, most of the criticism of Amazon…

> Also, I'm not sure where people are getting that Amazon is bad at privacy. Oh, I dunno, profiting from selling law enforcement nearly unrestricted access[1] to their existing IOT offerings as part of what they call "the new neighborhood watch"[2] while also profiting facial recognition offerings (Rekognition) doesn't really give me the impression they're good at privacy. In fact, it makes Google Analytics seem down…

What you claim is completely false. Key quotes from the articles you linked:

> Ring, she added, “does not own or otherwise control users’ videos, and we intentionally designed the Neighbors Portal to ensure that users get to decide whether to voluntarily provide their videos to the police.”

> The user can click to share their Ring videos, review them before sharing, decline or, at the bottom of the email, unsubscribe from future footage-sharing requests.

> Ring says police officers don’t have access to live video feeds and aren’t told which homes use Ring cameras or how homeowners responded unless the users consent.

So, please explain how this is "nearly unrestricted access"?

When it requires the owner to explicitly choose to share their own private video with police on a per-request basis?

To the contrary, it is 100% restricted.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#639

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

gonehome wrote: post #530
bmcahren wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disconnected roku works well once you fumble around and bypass the mandatory setup then activate HDMI-CEC so Google TV can simply and easily power, unpower, and switch inputs without issue. The remote is simple enough only containing maybe 6 unused buttons.

Roku has ads built into the UI? I'm also not sure how it meets the qualifications of everything else I listed?

What I find amusing is that I never noticed the ads on my cheap Roku TVs until they were mentioned on HN. I never spend more than a few seconds on the home screen, and that's the only place they appear.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#640

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

pupdogg wrote: post #545
justicezyx wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say: Something that can match LG OLED CX 77 2020 model priced $3,099.99 I'd be happy to pay at the same price without the smart features.

Fun fact: some LG displays use Samsung panels internally and vice-versa Another fun fact: When Samsung started in 1938, they specialized in trading dried fish. They came into the electronics industry in 1960s.

Don't knock it. Salted, dried fish can be delicious after you fry it with onions and chili peppers :-)
Post reply on HN