Amazon Sidewalk • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#601

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

Gorbzel wrote: post #485

pupdogg wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping PRIVACY a top priority, my ultimate vision would be to move away from these so called app stores. Considering the current state of things, I know that sounds very unrealistic. However, something inside me still tells me that if you create something of value, they will come!

No no no, stick to your vision!! ½ of these comments asking for AirPlay, the other ½ asking for Android TV or wtf Google is calling it these days. Next someone will want Roku, while someone else wants Amazon, and we’re right back to where we started. The purity of your idea is in the dumb TV. Don’t put a Raspberry Pi on the back, don’t build a mini-ATX PC in. 5 HDMI ports. Power. That’s it. People can bring their own…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#602

Post by nucleardog » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #509

pupdogg wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The controller in my industrial display accepts serial commands for control and has a fairly simple IR remote you can use as well. For customer application, we developed a simple .NET utility that they use to control approx. 240x individual displays at each facility from a single control room. Knowing that RS232 can be controlled using NodeJS these days, I'm sure more creative solutions can be developed for a persona…

I'm not sure why TVs still use IR - haven't all other forms of wireless moved past that to much better performing standards that don't require direction or line of sight? Nobody is pointing their xbox controller at the console.

It's simple and it works. It's cheap, it's responsive (button presses are responded to instantaneously, all of my game controllers take several seconds to power on and connect before they're useful), it's completely passive when not in use and gives you great battery life, in regular use (i.e., one TV per room) there's no practical issues with pairing or interference.

The only limitation is that you need line of sight to the TV.

Which might be an issue except generally if you're using a TV, you have line of sight to it because... it's a TV and that's its function.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#603

Post by SuoDuanDao » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

vinay_ys wrote: post #460

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't act as if you know me. Advertisers don't know me nearly as well as they'd like their bosses to think and neither do you.

Please don't take it personally. I obviously don't know _you_ and the "you" in my sentences isn't referring to you specifically. With that "you", I was referring to the typical user in general.

Fair enough. I intentionally cultivate a preference for novelty which is at odds with that description. Between that and the presumption a lot of the hype around advertising has, I can get defensive around the subject.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#604

Post by jack-bodine » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

pyrale wrote: post #534

criddell wrote: post #282

Didn't you see the part where it's been designed to protect your privacy? It's only there to make sure all the cameras and internet microphones around your neighborhood stay live. You know, to protect your privacy.

> Didn't you see the part where it's been designed to protect your privacy? I'm probably getting wooshed, but this claim is just hard to believe coming from any company headquartered north of Antartica. No special gripe against Amazon, it's just the default assumption anyone should make these days.

Yeah, the privacy section only mentioned 'encryption,' nothing about personal data or data collection.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#605

Post by arrosenberg » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #420

bredren wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon does not treat user data privacy as a core value. That means there is no floor to police those who use this network for data privacy. Beyond that, Apple mobile devices have the most efficient battery / processor compute on the market. Nothing to be said for mobile data use, though I would be interested to see analysis of how much new bandwidth usage results from participation. Also, I would expect Apple to be…

Is this a joke? Amazon certainly does treat user privacy seriously. When is the last time you have heard of any data leaks from Amazon? Meanwhile, Apple App store still is littered with apps that violate user privacy. Also, did we already forget about the celebrity photo iCloud leak due to poor authentication?

> When is the last time you have heard of any data leaks from Amazon?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its...

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#606

Post by kodah » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

I'm imagining someone building a utility looking box that can be stuck in apartment complex gardens or in the gardens of office complexes that has some dummy wifi that captures this exfiltration for its own means. If they want to be really sneaky they could put distance between themselves and the fake utility box using a LoRa bridge.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#607

Post by nucleardog » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

pupdogg wrote: post #589

ziml77 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also love a return to physical controls, but my concern with the touchscreens is actually less to do with durability and more to do with tactility and muscle memory. Before I stopped driving altogether, I had a car with a touchscreen interface. It had more functionality than other cars I'd driven and I appreciated that, but it also felt more dangerous to operate at times. Dedicated buttons for all the controls mi…

I think that either style interface has its place and can co-exist with the other. For example, in a car, I would prefer to have physical controls for audio and anything mechanical (ie HVAC, wipers, ON/OFF,etc). However, when it comes to preferential attributes, vehicle/user/passenger related settings or diagnostic data/feedback, I would much rather prefer the touchscreen. This goes for things like instrument panel,…

This is more or less my car.

Volume and tuning are knobs and steering wheel controls. HVAC is all controlled through physical knobs and switches for the heated seats and reported on a small (non-touch) display on top of the dash.

The touchscreen is for maps and more detailed radio/audio controls.

Configuration and preferences are configured through whichever system it's relevant to. Driving settings are configured on a small screen in the gauge cluster. Configuring the small display that shows the time/date and vehicle metrics (boost, tires, etc) is done via a small button near that screen. Configuring the radio/maps/etc is done via the touchscreen with the radio/maps on it.

It sounds kind of complicated in the way I'm describing it, but it's pretty intuitive in practice. "I want to configure that thing" = "Use the buttons on that thing".

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#608

Post by NathanielK » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #468

pupdogg wrote: post #363

If anyone is interested, I wouldn't mind collaborating to create a privacy oriented SmartTV or PC for devs or simply an industrial grade dumb TV. I have experience designing and building 70" industrial displays that utilize Samsung LCD panels. These "industrial" panels are normally twice the price of consumer grade ones but are designed to operate 24/7 with a MTBF of 100k hours (approx. 11 years) and are usually twic…

I think there’s a market for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26290427 “Make it OLED, dumb TV, instant on, Apple TV box plugs in. Separate box with front facing ports that connects to screen with one cable. A remote designed by someone who thought about it for ten seconds (why do modern TVs have dozens of buttons no one ever uses?). This entire market is in desperate need of someone to make something decent…

They exist[1]. The pricing is likely out of your budget though.

The included ads, large volumes, and low margins all drive down the cost of consumer displays. Your dream might also end up quite expensive. [1] https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/broadcastpromonitors

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#609

Post by arrosenberg » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

hwbehrens wrote: post #433

I do research on mesh networking, and the response to Sidewalk in the tech community has been pretty discouraging. People have rightly brought up Apple's Find My network as a similar application; companies are leveraging existing, ubiquitous devices to create additional network transport layers. See also, the proliferation and adoption of the Thread protocol. This doesn't mean we have to use these networks! But this…

> Finally, for those who think that it would be better to maintain centralized, monopolistic infrastructure and legislate privacy through legal means instead, I would argue that the arc of government is long, and bends toward control & surveillance.

Right now the arc of private industry is to maintain centralized, monopolistic infrastructure and legislate privacy through even less accessible "councils" and "boards", with the same exact negative implications. That's not any more appealing, and it shouldn't be surprising that people want to use the one avenue available to them (government) to right it. In fact, it's somewhat discouraging when someone is so suspicious of government power, but openly embraces concentrated corporate power. We shouldn't trust any of them - Amazon, Apple, Verizon or AT&T. The government is the one organization we have some level of influence over.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#610

Post by nucleardog » Tue, May 11, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

devman0 wrote: post #559

justicezyx wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say: Something that can match LG OLED CX 77 2020 model priced $3,099.99 I'd be happy to pay at the same price without the smart features.

There is the rub, the smart features subsidize the price instead of adding to it as it becomes an expected revenue stream. You can already get dumb TV, they are often used for signage or other commercial purposes, but they cost a lot more than consumer equipment.

They're not more expensive _just_ because of the lack of ads subsidization.

They also generally are just better built. The expected hours of operation and MTBF of the components is generally much higher than consumer displays. Many of the ones I dealt with had metal cases and stronger glass.

They're expected to stand up to much more abuse or often be installed in places where they're inconvenient to service.

If you wanted to build a non-smart panel with the expected lifespan of a typical consumer TV a significant portion of the current cost could likely be cut if it were done at scale.