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Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

babeljs.io

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Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#571

Post by einarfd »

rvnx wrote: post #106
emteycz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senior devs (not lead) in Prague can earn $100k a year plus vacation, health insurance, etc.

can, most don't. https://teleport.org/cities/prague/salaries/ Quite obvious.

I had a look at Oslo, and it's suggested median salary for a software Engineer was almost exactly the same as the average starting salary for a STEM master degree graduate in 2020 (https://www.tekna.no/lonn-og-arbeidsvilkar/lonnsstatistikk/b...). That does not inspire confidence, but maybe they are better in other profession, or other cities.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#572

Post by dqv »

vardaro wrote: post #556
cuu508 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jesus. Maybe I am old-school, but if you have a disagreement or someone isn't holding themselves to a standard, you don't take it to Twitter to signal to in-crowd. Not saying I disagree, but, in your words, what's bad with taking it to Twitter?

It doesn't really need to be taken to Twitter. There's almost zero benefit in publicly shaming your colleague like this.

Twitter is also (but isn't the only) tabloid social media. It promotes the sharing of sensational and one-sided content that is scant on details. I know we're supposed to be critical about what we read, but my first instinct was to assume Henry was a bad guy.

It would have been better to see this discussion in a forum or mailing list or anywhere that is designed for an actual longform discussion. Even if in public longer more detailed discussions can capture the nuance.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#574

Post by mcjiggerlog »

hiram112 wrote: post #541
19h wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me $72k for a non-full-time project per year is still insane. The median senior engineer pay in Italy is around EUR 38k - up to EUR 78k if you have around a decade of experience.

> The median senior engineer pay in Italy is around EUR 38k - up to EUR 78k if you have around a decade of experience I see these salaries in places like Spain, Italy, and even Germany outside of Frankfurt / Berlin, and I'm flabbergasted. I've lived in the EU and travelled quite a bit, too. If anything, the prices for food, electronics, sundries, etc. are MORE expensive than the US because of VAT. Housing, I'm sure,…

€38-78k is a high salary in Europe. Net median income in Spain is $27k.

Regardless, in the US net median income is $37k. I think maybe you're living in a bubble if you don't understand how people live on that kind of money. Also, don't be surprised by how big of a factor lifestyle inflation is. Your average Joe in Spain is not dropping $60k on a new truck.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#575

Post by meowtimemania »

cuu508 wrote: post #551
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. Maybe I am old-school, but if you have a disagreement or someone isn't holding themselves to a standard, you don't take it to Twitter to signal to in-crowd. Yes, even when it's a publicly funded open-source dev-tool. Just the usual immature behavior of super-genius developers who have no concept of professionalism since any company in the world will write them a yearly check of infinite money. Out-of-touch, kn…

> Jesus. Maybe I am old-school, but if you have a disagreement or someone isn't holding themselves to a standard, you don't take it to Twitter to signal to in-crowd. Not saying I disagree, but, in your words, what's bad with taking it to Twitter?

Taking it to Twitter makes the criticizing person look super toxic. I think reputation can be saved by doing this privately

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#576

Post by krainboltgreene »

bjornjajeja wrote: post #455
tarruda wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the meantime, Sebastian has started another competing project, Rome Tools, which was recently VC funded. > The whole thing stinks. Will Rome Tools employees get called out and shamed in public if they don't have enough visibility on their github profile? I had no idea he had started a competing project. This really stinks, almost like he is sabotaging his competitor.

Honestly the very idea of a JavaScript compiler like that is destined for obsolescence per standardized features added to browsers. Folks should just develop their own shims where necessary and TEST AGAINST VARIOUS BROWSERS. Sure no one likes doing that, but it’s important to follow the fast-pace ECMAScript adoption.

babel is a transpiler, which is more than just a way to shim shim features in browsers.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#577

Post by fartcannon »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #459
FiberBundle wrote: post #300

This whole thread is basically a testament as to why the OSS model, unfortunately, is broken. Very competent people are expected to write widely used software for a salary that basically merely guarantees subsistence. It never ceases to amaze me how great software engineers allow themselves to be exploited in such a way. If you consider the societal impact that some of these projects have and the skill set that some…

I'm the lead dev of Ardour, paid entirely by voluntarily payments for the software, and I make about $100k/year from the software itself. That's after nearly 35 years as a C++ software developer. Some people think I'm a brilliant programmer, I'd settle for "probably about as good as anyone you're likely to be able to hire". So why it is not ridiculous that I'm not working for twice that or more at some larger tech ou…

You are a tremendous contributor to open source software. My visually impaired friend appreciates the keyboard controls of ardour and as a result of your hard work (and his) creates and masters a lot of music without too much difficulty.

So, you know, thanks. You made the world a better place.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#578

Post by cfinn16 »

phpnode wrote: post #374
akmittal wrote: post #105

See what creator of Babel has to say >Babel used by millions, so why are we running out of money? Bluntly: Because funds were misallocated for years, and the project has been too slow to improve. >The reason there's no money is because someone took a $130k annual salary and didn't actually work on the project. https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1392019586833387522 - So donating money because of this post may not be a…

I think this is a really bad look for Sebastian. He started babel and made the most contributions overall, but he hasn't been involved in the project for 5 years at this point. He left to join Facebook and babel would have died if it weren't for the efforts of Logan, Henry, Nicolo and the other contributors. The original post on the babel website was written in response to him investigating the babel funding situatio…

Yeah, I'm admittedly just learning about this whole situation, but I fail to see how this isn't him just trying to take down the competition of his new project

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#579

Post by R0b0t1 »

danielsju6 wrote: post #412
capableweb wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You somehow seem to think that amount someone earns is somehow related to how good they are. > $11k/mo is realistic. It's already a large pay cut. Yes, sure, in Silicon Valley anything is possible but for the 99% rest of the world, 11K USD per month is ridiculously high and even people with decades of experience won't collect that unless there is a specific situation. It's definitely not normal outside of Silicon Val…

You realize that $11k has to pay their taxes, healthcare, and retirement state-side right? It’s peanuts.

$11k is not peanuts by any means.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#580

Post by ValentineC »

akmittal wrote: post #105

See what creator of Babel has to say >Babel used by millions, so why are we running out of money? Bluntly: Because funds were misallocated for years, and the project has been too slow to improve. >The reason there's no money is because someone took a $130k annual salary and didn't actually work on the project. https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1392019586833387522 - So donating money because of this post may not be a…

>>The reason there's no money is because someone took a $130k annual salary and didn't actually work on the project. https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1392019586833387522

I can't seem to see this tweet any more. Did it get deleted?

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