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Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

support.discord.com

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Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#51

Post by andrewzah »

kevingadd wrote: post #14
shlant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea I was a bit taken back by multiple uses of "harmful" and then "catastrophic"

If Discord suddenly stopped working for me, while it wouldn't be catastrophic it would be quite bad. I use it as my main channel of communication with many contacts, and I use it for work. I have secondary contact channels for plenty of people (twitter, email, etc), but not all. I can imagine a person having more of their life exist on Discord and if it suddenly became unusable for them due to these changes, it would…

That’s their fault, not discord’s. Apps existed before discord, and will exist after.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#53

Post by eloeffler »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #47
eloeffler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching Windows to dark mode

And yet, Windows 98 let you have more control over its appearance than Windows 10 does.

Absolutely :) There was some official addition to 95 that was later integrated into 98 in a way... Don't remember its name.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#54

Post by ry4nolson »

tobr wrote: post #41
dahfizz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"X elements are impossible for me to see because of Y condition" is a perfectly legitimate piece of feedback. "X element being the wrong color is causing catastrophic harm" is insane feedback. By using silly language, they are making themselves easy to ignore.

“Catastrophic harm” is a phrase you came up with. It’s fair to phrase accessibility concerns in terms of harm, because being denied access to something other people can use is a type of harm. “Catastrophic” is very common hyperbole for something you think is highly unfortunate.

first paragraph of the article:

>These are catastrophic design failures for the new UX, and directly harms both end-users due to eye-strain, and directly harms visually impaired individuals due to lack of visual clarity. It makes the app less accessible, and is not only visually displeasing, but actively ableist in nature.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#55

Post by listless »

kevingadd wrote: post #31
listless wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the “harmful” rhetoric that signals “I have an agenda”. We really need to get passed this charged way of conveying perfectly valid feedback. Because come on. It’s a chat app.

Of course they have an agenda. Discord is harder for them to use now, and they want it fixed. When did "agenda" become a negatively charged concept that only bad actors possess? Slack and Teams are chat apps too. Why would chat apps not be important?

By “agenda” I meant it in the sense that this isn’t about accessibility as much as it is this person getting points for a call out.

That’s a bad faith interpretation. So not presenting that as irrefutable fact.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#56

Post by tobr »

eloeffler wrote: post #45
tobr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theming makes it really hard to update the software in any substantial way. Even the slightest change to the design could end up breaking themes, or being drawn as white text on white background, etc. I think it’s natural that it was more common when auto-updating software wasn’t the norm.

Hm that's a good point. Some access to the theming would be nice though. Old themes were heavily based on tailored graphics that can really not be adapted easily. But the problem at hand (UI that's hard to read for the visually impaired) could be addressed with at least some access to the theming. That's something many programs still offer though.

“Theming” for accessibility reasons is something I believe most systems support. Things like larger text size, high-contrast mode, etc.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#57

Post by dahfizz »

faitswulff wrote: post #43
dahfizz wrote: post #10

The language here rubs me the wrong way. Everything is stated as being "incredibly harmful" with no explanation beyond > ...directly harms visually impaired individuals due to lack of visual clarity. I am also not sure how "Elements lack unity" is related to the UI causing harm. I don't use discord, so I have no idea how good the UI is. If the UI is bad and hard for the visually impaired to use, there is definitely a…

Well, if we’re just talking about unwanted opinions, then a sighted person tone policing a visually impaired user rubs me the wrong way. What if they use discord to keep in touch with their family and the product is unusable to them now? Why do you care how emphatically someone expresses how they cannot even properly see the product in question anymore? Imagine stepping into a car and the windshield is completely pai…

I agree that Discord should maintain accessibility in their products, and I can sympathize with how frustrating it is when services you rely on break.

I think we are in agreement here - this post is an emotionally charged person venting. I don't have any problem with that, but maybe there is a better way to vent than on the discord support page. If you want to actually effect change, this is not the way to do it.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#58

Post by mpalmer »

cwilkes wrote: post #38
mpalmer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language people use to express themselves is important; forming reasonable arguments is an important skill. Falling back on strong emotional language like actively harms is a crutch - unless well-supported by facts or reasoning. Also they don't "suggest" a remedy, they demand it, and their demand is backed by their unsupported claim of "actively harms".

> Also they don't "suggest" a remedy, they demand it Would this post have been better if they said “it might be a good idea if you considered going back to the previous way?” I’m not sure how soft pedaling the ask makes it more reasonable. The post is pretty clear in what is wrong and how to fix it. If anything Discord is the aggressor here with a forced change without an “use the old UI” button. If the posts include…

I guess one person's soft pedaling is another's common decency. But that doesn't get nearly as many clicks or views, or HN comments for that matter.

And seriously? "Aggressor"? It's not an attack, for god's sake.

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#59

Post by tobr »

ry4nolson wrote: post #54
tobr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Catastrophic harm” is a phrase you came up with. It’s fair to phrase accessibility concerns in terms of harm, because being denied access to something other people can use is a type of harm. “Catastrophic” is very common hyperbole for something you think is highly unfortunate.

first paragraph of the article: >These are catastrophic design failures for the new UX, and directly harms both end-users due to eye-strain, and directly harms visually impaired individuals due to lack of visual clarity. It makes the app less accessible, and is not only visually displeasing, but actively ableist in nature.

Yes, what are we supposed to take from this quote as a reply in this context?

Re: Discord's new UX design is harmful to the visually impaired and colorblind

#60

Post by faitswulff »

dahfizz wrote: post #57
faitswulff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if we’re just talking about unwanted opinions, then a sighted person tone policing a visually impaired user rubs me the wrong way. What if they use discord to keep in touch with their family and the product is unusable to them now? Why do you care how emphatically someone expresses how they cannot even properly see the product in question anymore? Imagine stepping into a car and the windshield is completely pai…

I agree that Discord should maintain accessibility in their products, and I can sympathize with how frustrating it is when services you rely on break. I think we are in agreement here - this post is an emotionally charged person venting. I don't have any problem with that, but maybe there is a better way to vent than on the discord support page. If you want to actually effect change, this is not the way to do it.

What you're doing is called tone policing and it's not helpful. Would the post have gotten as much attention if the poster had been meek and polite? Probably not.
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