Live data from Hacker News

Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

babeljs.io

441–450 of 729 posts

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like measuring a carpenter by how many nails they've driven per day.

Not per day, but over an entire year. If you're making things that are held together with nails then that is not a bad starting point for evaluation.

Not everything is held together with nails.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP wouldn't be wrong to do so. Detroit (the city) suffered through the changes of suburbanization and racial tensions during the 50s/60s...but Detroit (the industry) also suffered a steady decline in automotive market share starting around then as well. This had equally devastating effects to the region. Just look at Flint. I believe Detroit automakers used to account for 90% (I may be off by +/- 10%) of global car s…

What’s less clear to me is whether or not the tech industry is like the car. Will the rate of innovation drop as we slowly approach an asymptotically perfect product, or will it accelerate as access to concentrated labor and knowledge drives up the rate of change?

an excellent question.

however, it may be orthogonal to the question of whether or not other parts of the US, and more broadly, other parts of the world, can be where that continuing development happens. regardless of which of those two paths turns out to be the future, there's still the question of what SV's role will be.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#443

> we settled on $11,000 per month as a baseline salary for working full-time on open source. > For now, Nicolò, Henry, and Jùnliàng will all be paid a temporary rate of $6,000 per month. This doesn't solve the problem, I used to donate to Babel, before they made it apparent they are just interested in funneling the money to one developer. 11K per month?! That is absolutely bananas and same reaction I had the last tim…

Why do you think 11K is a lot? If you compare how much companies make thanks to this project, I am curious why don't they make 100K a month?

For 100K, you can write your own version. It's not hard.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense for a normal size organization but they literally only have three employees. And the majority of the fund raised was used for his salary. If anything, it's not fair at all for the other two who did the substantial work and only earn 2k per month. (To be fair they have changed the distribution this year.)

The organization is substantially larger than just its paid employees. https://babeljs.io/team

I'm sorry but how does this not sound worse?

"My job is to manage a team of employees who code." vs "my job is to manage a team of unpaid volunteers who code, while I earn a proper salary".

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#445

There's a lot of greedy selfish people out there. This past year I was mostly unemployed, and wasted countless hours, days and weeks, months doing tech interviews. A complete waste of my time that I'll never get back. I live in London and it's stupidly expensive. Although all of my problems, I've kept sending my donations to people, projects to show my support, appreciation, and also charities and family in need. I g…

For some people, being unemployed (even mostly) means living on the streets and eating scraps of food to get by, so I do not understand what you are trying to signal here when you say can still be generous and donate despite being mostly unemployed. Unless of course, you have a several years worth of savings or a stable source of food and shelter, in which case you being unemployed is irrelevant. I understand the desire and passion to help, but speaking of empathy, some people may have a very different idea of what unemployment means.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. His language sounds like he knew Henry personally. I will take it with a grain of salt. But same applied to creator of the Babel, since he could have beef with Henry. 2. He said lots of circumstantial things about the matter. Namely: 130K isn't high for NYC; he could have and probably had better offer easily; he didn't need to maintain Babel but did, etc. All these are good but didn't answer the direct question, i…

I do know Henry personally and Henry actually consulted me when he was debating whether he should quit his job to work on Babel full time. We also occasionally talk about the burdens of OSS maintenance so I know first hand how hard he's been trying to keep Babel afloat. That said, a statement from the current most active paid contributor to Babel is probably more convincing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27116…

The linked comment above is one that people interested should read. Especially people who only read the relatively inflammatory and context free initial tweet.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends entirely on their contract and what is expected of them. Coding is just one possible duty of a lead in this sort of project - the article itself talks about him undertaking various fundraising duties - thats in addition to whatever time period (eg. retrospective) the money is supposed to cover. Having said that, the salary looks excessive and the commit history isn't a good look without clarification. But ass…

>the article itself talks about him undertaking various fundraising duties - thats in addition to whatever time period (eg. retrospective) the money is supposed to cover. So, he fundraised money to have time to further fundraise, and he did it so well that they have to decrease his salary? Sounds like he did not do so great job here either.

I know almost nothing about this situation, but if I was hired to raise money and did a bad job, I'd expect to be fired. I wouldn't expect to have a blog post written about me.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#448
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not per day, but over an entire year. If you're making things that are held together with nails then that is not a bad starting point for evaluation.

Not everything is held together with nails.

Yes, that's why I put in the "if".

We can change the analogy to also look at how many pieces of furniture produced, or whatever, but it starts to just be a pointless tangent.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#449

See what creator of Babel has to say >Babel used by millions, so why are we running out of money? Bluntly: Because funds were misallocated for years, and the project has been too slow to improve. >The reason there's no money is because someone took a $130k annual salary and didn't actually work on the project. https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1392019586833387522 - So donating money because of this post may not be a…

I think this is a really bad look for Sebastian. He started babel and made the most contributions overall, but he hasn't been involved in the project for 5 years at this point. He left to join Facebook and babel would have died if it weren't for the efforts of Logan, Henry, Nicolo and the other contributors. The original post on the babel website was written in response to him investigating the babel funding situatio…

There is a conflict of interest, but I wouldn't say it's 1-to-1.

It's tough because I think the "optics of productivity" are somewhat important because money is involved. If I was concerned about things, I would have pinged someone in private months ago. Taking this to a public forum, leading with an accusation isn't the right thing to do regardless of how Babel.js was handling these things.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#450

this is why i preferred Corporation backed open source project like Microsoft's VS code. MSFT fund it. no drama.

Yes, instead MSFT has quite a few dead/"reprioritized" projects. That drama probably happened internally, you just didn't see it play out in a bunch of tweets.

I'm not sure many strong/passionate people outside MSFT feel motivated to contribute to MSFT open source. Especially to do work that someone already gets paid for, and might get a huge bonus from their boss if the project is a success. I would argue non-corp-backed projects are the ones which get the passionate contributors and community.

Post reply on HN