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Amazon Sidewalk

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Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#371

Post by buran77 »

adriancr wrote: post #242
buran77 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably wouldn't be allowed to disable the basic functionality of the TV, at least not without marketing it as "online only TV", which wouldn't look good (your internet may fail, or you may want it in a place without internet). LG will disable your "smart features" if you refuse the EULA. But that's actually the optimistic and desired outcome. The undesirable outcome is that they just hardcode some IPs or DNS i…

You can fix the hardcoded dns IP addresses. I just blocked all DNS traffic outside of directed to a dnsmasq container allowing only whitelisted hosts (I just allow netflix on smart tv) Next step is to block all traffic to IP Addresses that have not been resolved by that. That would fix DoH but it seems overkill for now.

You're right but as I said above:

> they just hardcode some IPs or DNS in which case PiHole would be of no use. At best you could create a NAT port forward to redirect DNS requests to the PiHole, assuming it's not DoH.

The idea is that you'll need more than just a PiHole for all of this which further reduces the pool of people who can pull it off. You have to redirect DNS requests to your own DNS server, and/or block 443/DoH completely, neither of which the PiHole or a regular ISP router can do on their own. At this point if you can you're probably better off blocking all outside connectivity from you TV anyway.

I strongly recommend everyone to just reject any and all EULA screens ever presented. At this point at least legally the manufacturer can no longer legally do much which is why they'll disable almost every smart feature, which is essentially "dumbifying" the TV.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#372

Post by pb77 »

squarefoot wrote: post #50

So, if I buy a so called Smart-TV (not because I like it but because traditional ones are getting harder to find) but don't set up it on my home network so it can't phone home, it could scan around anyway and find other open devices more than willing to participate in my personal data exfiltration? If the Amazon project succeeds, I would expect in a few months most home devices manufacturers, to partner to implement…

I have a smart tv but never signed into my wifi from it, does it still have privacy issues. I use firestick to access netflix etc.

I assume the next versions of the tvs internet connection may be mandatory for it to work.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#374

Post by pupdogg »

danicgross wrote: post #368
pupdogg wrote: post #363

If anyone is interested, I wouldn't mind collaborating to create a privacy oriented SmartTV or PC for devs or simply an industrial grade dumb TV. I have experience designing and building 70" industrial displays that utilize Samsung LCD panels. These "industrial" panels are normally twice the price of consumer grade ones but are designed to operate 24/7 with a MTBF of 100k hours (approx. 11 years) and are usually twic…

That’s interesting. Can you make something that’s higher end than the most high end consumer TV? (If Tesla had to be “a better car that’s also electric”, I think this would need to be “a better TV that’s also private”.)

Higher-end can mean a lot of things, especially when talking consumer grade. I generally translate consumer grade high-end as being more aesthetically pleasing vs operationally. My expertise are more aligned with industrial grade equipment where size is typically not the limit. I've deployed a 16ft x 9ft high-res LED display for a customer in the past. That's something you don't normally find at BestBuy or even at their Magnolia outlets.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#375

Post by peatmoss »

ulzeraj wrote: post #147
squarefoot wrote: post #50

So, if I buy a so called Smart-TV (not because I like it but because traditional ones are getting harder to find) but don't set up it on my home network so it can't phone home, it could scan around anyway and find other open devices more than willing to participate in my personal data exfiltration? If the Amazon project succeeds, I would expect in a few months most home devices manufacturers, to partner to implement…

IMO. There should be a market for: - Dumb panels (not monitors). Perhaps stripped down recycled smart tvs. - Smart tvs but with user replaceable firmware. Think OpenWRT for TVs. Maybe the same guy who does the dumb panels could sell those but with a raspberry pi in place of the logic board. Of course a monitor solves these issues but these are normally smaller and more expensive.

In addition to the privacy benefits, you could potentially build a controller that actually turns on Really Fast. Modern smart TVs just feel slow in every way.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#376

Post by wlesieutre »

atomicfiredoll wrote: post #299
wlesieutre wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's regular dumb TVs around too, and reasonably priced. Walmart's site lets you filter for "Smart = N". Sceptre and RCA are the main brands. For example https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-65-Class-4K-Ultra-HD-2160P-LE...

To offer a non-walmart option, I've been using the Rtings table tool to find consumer TVs are potentially more respectful of privacy. Although I get the impression a number of sets aren't captured here (maybe walmart has some listed that Rtings doesn't), they are fairly thorough. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/53948

The trouble with looking at a "no ads" rating is that smart TVs can always put more ads in later: https://twitter.com/JobPlas/status/1235537095755739136

You could say "I'm not installing software updates" and be safe from ads as long as you don't need any bugfixes, but then you're also missing out on security updates. If you keep it off the internet maybe you're ok, but your TV might start connecting to a neighbor's wifi to give you more advertising.

And with a smart TV, in addition to ads you may also want to be on the lookout for Automatic Content Recognition: https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smar...

I'd be much happier just not having a wifi antenna in my television.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#377

Post by danuker »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #367
pupdogg wrote: post #363

If anyone is interested, I wouldn't mind collaborating to create a privacy oriented SmartTV or PC for devs or simply an industrial grade dumb TV. I have experience designing and building 70" industrial displays that utilize Samsung LCD panels. These "industrial" panels are normally twice the price of consumer grade ones but are designed to operate 24/7 with a MTBF of 100k hours (approx. 11 years) and are usually twic…

An extremely interesting prospect you've got here. What's stopping you from doing it right now?

I would guess the massive investments needed for a hardware startup.

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#378

Post by pupdogg »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #367
pupdogg wrote: post #363

If anyone is interested, I wouldn't mind collaborating to create a privacy oriented SmartTV or PC for devs or simply an industrial grade dumb TV. I have experience designing and building 70" industrial displays that utilize Samsung LCD panels. These "industrial" panels are normally twice the price of consumer grade ones but are designed to operate 24/7 with a MTBF of 100k hours (approx. 11 years) and are usually twic…

An extremely interesting prospect you've got here. What's stopping you from doing it right now?

Nothing. I just realize that as I age, there's only so much a single person can do ;)

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#379

Post by ChrisArchitect »

So much discussion about this previously

6 months ago, same page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25196521

TechCrunch article 8 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24565259

TechCrunch article 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21073841

Amazon apologizing for Sidewalk 'confusion' 6 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25217233

Re: Amazon Sidewalk

#380

Post by danuker »

notyourwork wrote: post #309
rubatuga wrote: post #11

Please don’t support Amazon from creating another network-effect product that creates vendor lock-in, and privacy issues. Convenience should not be the end-all goal, as the ad blatantly states, but instead interoperability and open-protocols.

> Convenience should not be the end-all goal For who? Even as a tech savvy person, that is ALL I want. I used to tinker around with home projects, nowadays I want things that work with no fuss. I don't want to play IT support desk for my family, I want their stuff to work. Convenience is exactly what people want who don't understand technology but want to use it for benefit.

I like some privacy to go with the convenience. I want to watch TV, not the other way round.
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