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Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

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Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#101
post #90

Update Governor Brown just signed the aforementioned affiliate nexus taxes into law minutes ago. They took effect instantly.

Couldn't find any news stories that weren't just reporting on the "what ifs", but the press release from the governor's office is available here: http://gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=17101

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#102
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

So what about actual Amazon employees, like Lab126 in Cupertino? Are they hiding Amazon affiliation through fancy corporate footwork and shell companies?

Yes. They are shell corporations that happen to be owned by Amazon.

I don't know how they are affected by this bill. But it will be interesting to see what happens with it.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#103
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for states to want to enforce the tax that's already on the books and supposed to be already reported/collected, as you state. The problem is the hangup with the commerce clause. Catalog companies didn't threaten to make a significant % of all sales into postal sales, the internet does. I'd hope that we could find a way to straighten things out where the state can still assess t…

I can totally understand why Amazon doesn't want to have to collect municipal sales tax. Every city in my state has a different potential tax rate, with a percentage determined by the state, by the county, by whether the city participates in mass transit, etc. Same zip codes have different taxes. Trying to manage that across the country is an ugly proposition! At least the EU has chosen a single VAT (even if it is ou…

the EU doesn't have a single VAT, or a even a single VAT rate. Each country can choose its own. But if you sell from country A to a resident of country B, you have to charge your country A VAT (in most end-consumer situations) just like you charge to a country A resident. (unless you get real big, then you have to collect country B VAT instead...)

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#104
So, what exactly is deemed "presence?" Apparently an Amazon distribution center in Texas was deemed "presence" a while back. On the other hand, surely Amazon operates a fairly extensive network of data centers, warehouses, and other fixed-location logistical inputs in California? Is that "presence?" Where is the distinction lie?

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#105
post #55
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

So... if I understand correctly, if I am a resident of California and I buy books from Amazon, I pay no sales tax (isn't that the same as VAT)? Does this mean that Amazon books in Washington are more expensive (because I Amazon must collect the taxes, because the state can force it to, because it has a physical presence there)?

The books are the same price. Amazon simply tacks on WA sales tax. Here's an example from a purchase I made last month:

    Amazon.com items (Sold by Amazon.com, LLC) :

    1  Apple iPod touch 8 GB (4th...  $204.99               1  $204.99

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Item Subtotal:    $204.99
                Shipping  and handling:      $3.99
                   Sales Tax Collected:     $19.85
                                 Total:    $228.83 
                          Paid by Visa:    $228.83 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprisingly, items that are sold by third parties on Amazon, but still fulfilled by Amazon are not subject to sales tax, as long as the third party is not located here in Washington state.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#106
post #95

This sounds like a terrible idea from a technology standpoint as each county and city seemingly has different sales tax rates. To comply with taxation, every out of state company will now need to pull the active sales tax rates for the shipping destination and then apply this to the order. What happens if the rate isn't kept up to date? Are states like California actually ready to supply this data in a form that is e…

There are companies out there like http://www.avalara.com/ that exist to help deal with the complexities of state, county and city sales tax rates.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#107
post #74
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

Nice text of the actual law with revisions marked-up: http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/abx1_2... [edited to note that revisions are highlighted]

Just carefully read through parts of this and noticed the following exception for small retailers ("This bill would include in the definition of a retailer engaged in business in this state any retailer entering into agreements under which a person or persons in this state, for a commission or other consideration, directly or indirectly refer potential purchasers, whether by an Internet-based link or an Internet Web site, or otherwise, to the retailer, provided the total cumulative sales price from all sales by the retailer to purchasers in this state that are referred pursuant to these agreements is in excess of $10,000 within the preceding 12 months, and provided further that the retailer has cumulative sales of tangible personal property to purchasers in this state of over $500,000, within the preceding 12 months, except as specified. This bill would also provide that a retailer entering into specified agreements to purchase advertising is not a retailer engaged in business in this state and would define a retailer to include an entity affiliated with a retailer under federal income tax law, as specified. This bill would further provide that these provisions would not apply if the retailer can demonstrate that the referrals wold not satisfy specified United States constitutional requirements,as provided."

EDIT: slight formatting changes

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#108
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what about actual Amazon employees, like Lab126 in Cupertino? Are they hiding Amazon affiliation through fancy corporate footwork and shell companies?

Yes. They are shell corporations that happen to be owned by Amazon. I don't know how they are affected by this bill. But it will be interesting to see what happens with it.

Texas is trying to go after Amazon shell companies; I'm not sure if California has tried that route.

In Texas, there are two companies involved: Amazon.com.kydc, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon.com, Inc. The sole business of the former is to operate physical facilities, some of which are in Texas, and which provide warehousing and shipment of books for the latter. Texas argues that this constitutes Amazon having a physical presence in Texas, but Amazon disagrees.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#109
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... if I understand correctly, if I am a resident of California and I buy books from Amazon, I pay no sales tax (isn't that the same as VAT)? Does this mean that Amazon books in Washington are more expensive (because I Amazon must collect the taxes, because the state can force it to, because it has a physical presence there)?

The books are the same price. Amazon simply tacks on WA sales tax. Here's an example from a purchase I made last month: Amazon.com items (Sold by Amazon.com, LLC) : 1 Apple iPod touch 8 GB (4th... $204.99 1 $204.99 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Item Subtotal: $204.99 Shipping and handling: $3.99 Sales Tax Collected: $19.85 Total: $228.83 Paid by Visa: $228.83 -------------------…

I don't get it now... tedunangst and ojbyrne claim, that I would pay no tax, and you say that I still pay WA tax. So if Callifornia would collect its sales/use tax as well, I would pay tax twice, or no WA tax, or what?

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#110
post #92
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon (or more accurately, the purchaser) should be paying all sales taxes in the state where the purchaser lives, period. Seems cut and dried to me. If the corner store has to run sales tax, Amazon should too. Actually, the "corner store" doesn't have to collect sales tax. The "corner store" collects sales tax for the jurisdiction it is in. (Car dealers are an exception because of licensing.) CA says that its res…

Amazon's different because they're bigger than a rounding error, basically. The principle is "same amount of taxes for everyone". I don't live in California but if I did, I wouldn't be huge on the idea of tax-disadvantaging local businesses against out of state businesses.

Then pursue the customers and force them to actually report their rightful use-tax when they file their taxes at the end of the year. Amazon isn't not collecting CA sales tax because they think it shouldn't be paid. They're not collecting the sales tax because they have no legal requirement to.
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