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Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

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Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#51
post #48

I suspect Amazon secretly wish they could just get rid of their entire affiliate program. If it was so profitable, they wouldn't be getting rid of affiliates left and right. If you think about it, most people who buy thru an Amazon affiliate link probably would've bought it from Amazon anyway (due to its huge brand recognition, dominance in Google, etc). So, when an affiliate refers a sale, sometimes they're losing m…

Is there something preventing Amazon from doing so?

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, you're completely right. I'd still note that every single national retailer manages to do it ok.

Both national retailers and Amazon probably have the capabilities to do this, but equal protection clause states that you can't single out a single entity with a law. Would you have computing this be a barrier to entry for anyone who wants to sell over the internet? Especially as services and digital goods might also be considered taxable under certain jurisdictions.

I see your point that this could be a problem, but it's also a problem that brick-and-mortar shops have to pay tax while Amazon doesn't, no? Equal protection (or competitiveness) goes both ways.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#54
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually there are far more than 50, as many counties and municipalities have their own sales tax rates on top of their state's rate. not only that, but it is far more complex than just one fixnum per jurisdiction as each is able to establish rules on what is taxed and what is not. the prime example is food, where the local laws on what counts as non-taxed food always seem a bit byzantine.

Thanks, you're completely right. I'd still note that every single national retailer manages to do it ok.

Note that brick and mortar retailers only have to know the taxes which apply to each of their locations. While this is a lot of different locations for a big chain, it's far less than knowing the taxes for the location of every single customer.

To put it more concretely, Best Buy has to manage sales tax for ~1000 stores, but Amazon has to manage sales tax for ~100 million customers.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#55
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

So... if I understand correctly, if I am a resident of California and I buy books from Amazon, I pay no sales tax (isn't that the same as VAT)? Does this mean that Amazon books in Washington are more expensive (because I Amazon must collect the taxes, because the state can force it to, because it has a physical presence there)?

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many affiliates are they willing to terminate? All of them (besides the 5 states it already collects for http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=4... ) ?

Sales tax tends to be 5-10%, affiliate kickbacks tend to be less than that, which means that the increased revenue from affiliate links is in the same ballpark. It would be bad enough if these laws forced amazon to pay sales tax on purchases where the affiliate lived in the same state as the purchaser. Instead these laws force amazon to pay sales tax on all sales where the purchaser lives in a state where there is a…

Amazon (or more accurately, the purchaser) should be paying all sales taxes in the state where the purchaser lives, period. Seems cut and dried to me. If the corner store has to run sales tax, Amazon should too.

I don't see why a "[adjective] business decision in the face of [adjective] and [adjective] legislation" is in any way different from "skirt paying sales tax".

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both national retailers and Amazon probably have the capabilities to do this, but equal protection clause states that you can't single out a single entity with a law. Would you have computing this be a barrier to entry for anyone who wants to sell over the internet? Especially as services and digital goods might also be considered taxable under certain jurisdictions.

I see your point that this could be a problem, but it's also a problem that brick-and-mortar shops have to pay tax while Amazon doesn't, no? Equal protection (or competitiveness) goes both ways.

Neither have to pay the tax, it's just a question of who the state can compel to collect the tax on behalf of customers. The real tax evaders here are the customers, who are required to pay a use tax for out of state purchases. Of course, clamping down on this is political suicide so it doesn't happen.

I think the classical argument as to why the brick and mortars have to collect is because they actually see a benefit from the local government in the form of police, fire protection and transportation in a way that Amazon does not (at least not directly).

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#58
post #24
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for states to want to enforce the tax that's already on the books and supposed to be already reported/collected, as you state. The problem is the hangup with the commerce clause. Catalog companies didn't threaten to make a significant % of all sales into postal sales, the internet does. I'd hope that we could find a way to straighten things out where the state can still assess t…

Catalog companies didn't threaten to make a significant % of all sales into postal sales, the internet does.

I am not so sure of that. Particularly in rural states, companies like Sears-Roebuck were the prime source of all sorts of amenities of basic life, from phonographs to sewing machines. Sure, it took longer, but the prices were a lot better than general stores. And the selection was amazing. You could buy anything up to and including a new house! (Some assembly required.)

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#59
post #55
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

So... if I understand correctly, if I am a resident of California and I buy books from Amazon, I pay no sales tax (isn't that the same as VAT)? Does this mean that Amazon books in Washington are more expensive (because I Amazon must collect the taxes, because the state can force it to, because it has a physical presence there)?

Yes that's what it means.

Re: Amazon will end affiliate program in California if new law passes

#60
post #55
post #11

Some important background on this. At issue here is sales tax. By state law, the tax is owed by the citizens to the state no matter where they make the purchase. To make enforcement easier, the tax is supposed to be collected by businesses. In theory the tax is owed regardless, but as a practical matter when businesses do not collect the tax, customers don't volunteer the information and the state loses revenue. This…

So... if I understand correctly, if I am a resident of California and I buy books from Amazon, I pay no sales tax (isn't that the same as VAT)? Does this mean that Amazon books in Washington are more expensive (because I Amazon must collect the taxes, because the state can force it to, because it has a physical presence there)?

If you live in CA and buy books from Amazon, Amazon does not collect sales tax. You are still required by law to pay it. The onus is now on you to calculate the amount and include it when you file your income taxes.
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