Live data from Hacker News

Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

axios.com

321–330 of 566 posts

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#321

I left the game industry for FAANG and I'm getting paid 2-3x more. I'm happy with this situation if I consider the big picture but, at least in my case, my game job was much, MUCH better than FAANG. No matter how many fancy drinks and energy bars FAANG gives me, if the pay in the game industry was higher I'd have stayed without a doubt. What this means is that FAANG is actually paying what it needs to pay to get empl…

Can you go into some detail about the specifics ways that the game job was better?

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#322
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice is to walk after "Company: We'll offer you $100K." and go to "Comparable companies". If there aren't any then you lied with point 1.

That's not negotiation, though. That's just walking away when the number isn't high enough. Negotiation implies some kind of discussion: back-and-forth, give-and-take. I've rarely experienced any discussion actually working. It's usually the company, who has all the power, giving a "take it or leave it" offer, and that's it.

If you really think that

1. your work is worth 150k

2. other comparable companies would pay you as much

then why would you negotiate further at that point? It’s obvious that your interview partner is looking for someone cheaper. If they do want to hire you, they will make you a fair offer.

Negotiation skills are about negotiating 180k in that situation.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#323
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

(Opinions are my own) > The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low If this is good or bad is up to interpretation but some people actually enjoy different work cultures. I just joined Google after a ~5 year career at various startups, 2 of them YC backed through Work at a Startup & Bookface. Google's culture and the culture at startups I've wo…

I don't get why you care about the company. Most of the time the sole purpose of existence of that company is making its owners and investors rich. That 100hr probably let them get an important contract, so they got a bit richer, but in return you were given food scraps (some time off). If it was me, I'd approach the owners and said "look, if this shit is so critical for your business, I can spend some extra time and try to fix it, but in return I'll become an LP with a small stake."

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking away is only powerful if you have leverage. Game devs, unlike a lot of other software, are not super in demand. You can't apply for an entry level job at EA and then pop over to Ubisoft instead when the offer from EA is crap. There are way more folks trying to break into game dev than there are jobs available.

I actually work for a AAA games company and what you said only applies at kind of junior/intermediate level. Hit senior/lead/expert and you can walk out and get another job in a week, it's super hard to hire seniors and above and those positions hold a lot of leverage. Edit: obligatory "above is true in my experience, YMMV"

Second this. Have worked at several AAA studios as an engineer. I am currently hiring for junior and senior engineering positions. The number of candidates for the former is two orders of magnitude greater than the latter. The good senior engineers in the game industry don’t have to worry about work, and the compensation largely accounts that. It isn’t FAANG level for the most part, but closer than it was a decade ago and a lot higher than what you would think from the hashtag.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#325
post #307

This is ultimately a supply and demand issue. Google pays high salaries because they have to in order to hire the talent they want. Game devs apparently do not have to, because they are able to fill their roles for lower salaries. Don't pretend like all tech companies wouldn't love to lower dev salaries, they just can't because they wouldn't be able to hire. Game companies apparently have a meaningful differentiator,…

> should NOT be treated as an indicator for what "reasonable" pay looks like across the entire industry. Hard disagree. The comparatively low salaries in other sectors are just that, below what workers should be earning. Things are fuzzier in the indie space, but companies like Blizzard, Activision, EA, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar, CDPR, etc. all pay low and absolutely rake in profits. We should call worker exploitation…

What you're saying really boils down to whether or not you think capitalism makes sense, which is a much bigger argument, but ignoring that --

Who defines "should be earning"? You?

Currently, we let the market determine it. It's fine to say you don't like that system, but that's the argument you should make, not "Big game companies are unfair". They're just playing the game the way we set it up.

Alternatively, you could maybe argue "I believe it is possible to make AAA games, pay high salaries, and actually make profits all at the same time", which would be an interesting take, and you could maybe explain how.

But saying "this is worker exploitation" is an uninspired, unproductive argument, IMO.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody should work overtime for free. > Just never work for a company for free. Screw you, buddy, I'll do what I want to! (Okay, my aggressive tone is a joke, but I do actually mean the underlying point. I've worked for free many times, for at least two totally different reasons in different situations, and I'll do it again, and it's ridiculous to say that people should "never" do this. Different people have differ…

After reading the parent comment, I have a feeling they didn't mean it as "nobody should work overtime for free [even once or ever]", but more like "nobody should work overtime for free [as the norm, on a regular basis]". If that was indeed what the parent comment truly meant, would you still disagree with it? Because I am of the same opinion as you that complete outright rejection of overtime, even if it is only onc…

Do you reject volunteering?

Do you reject volunteering for non-profits? What about non-profits that have some paid employees? What about for-profit companies that you believe have a net positive effect on the world? What about jobs that you think are fun, I dunno maybe white water guiding, that happen to be for for-profit non-benevolent companies?

The whole idea of "you shouldn't work if you're not getting paid" is a category error.

If you want to do work, do it. If you're getting paid, great. If you're not getting paid but you want to do it anyway, great. If the only reason you want to do this work is because your current alternatives suck, well, I'm sorry to hear that, but you should still pursue your best alternative, which may be working unpaid overtime.

Mind you, in some cases, it makes sense to say "because I am part of a bargaining collective, I will eschew personally-beneficial options, as part of our collective negotiation strategy". Respect! But that's only sane if you're actually part of a bargaining collective. It is (usually) completely idiotic to imagine that you have solidarity with other people who do not see themselves as having solidarity with you.

All of the above comments are super generic, because moksly made some very generic comments, including "never work for a company for free", and I think moksly's advice, when taken as written, is utterly wrong. Now, specifically in the case of working paid or unpaid overtime, as with any other question about workplace environment or about compensation, the only reasonable thing to do is ask what your alternatives are, both short-term and long-term.

Tell me, if you're against overtime being the norm or a regular thing, what advice would you give to a hypothetical person who has no known alternative employment and a dependent to support, and who knows that their boss could hire others to replace them? Would you honestly say to them "never work for a company for free"? Surely instead you would say "do what you gotta do, and also btw try to find a different job, and also btw good luck buddy I feel for you".

The sentence "never work for a company for free" is utterly wrong-headed.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda A bunch of people already responded to this, but I'm going to add my two cents anyway: I currently make 6 low figures in a relatively boring but non-stressful systems administration job. The company is a dinosaur in Internet Years and has its idiosyncrasies but is ultimately a very decent place to work. My manager gives me my priorities an…

> I currently make 6 low figures in a relatively boring but non-stressful systems administration job. For context, I was contacted by a game dev company recently. The max they could pay me was 5 figures. Doing a gaming job for 40 hours a week for low 6 figures is fine. However, it's not the reality for many, if not most, game devs.

The phrase "six-figure salary" is so strange. We're almost always referring to slightly above $100K. Does anyone ever say "I make six figures" and mean $900K, or even half a million?

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#328

I left the game industry for FAANG and I'm getting paid 2-3x more. I'm happy with this situation if I consider the big picture but, at least in my case, my game job was much, MUCH better than FAANG. No matter how many fancy drinks and energy bars FAANG gives me, if the pay in the game industry was higher I'd have stayed without a doubt. What this means is that FAANG is actually paying what it needs to pay to get empl…

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#329
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but "most of the industry can't pay FAANG salaries" is also true. There is a lot of room between that your characterization.

There are plenty of games companies that are billion dollar businesses. They absolutely can afford to pay FAANG salaries.

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true? Levels.fyi shows Apple right about inline with GOOG, FB and AMZN and significantly higher than MSFT for mid to senior levels.

Everyone I know who moved from another FAANG took a pay cut (and everyone who left Apple to another FAANG got a fat raise). So my data is anecdotal but consistent. Also MSFT isn't part of FAANG.

Basically google and FB pay the best, and then msft, amazon and apple are second tier as far as compensation goes.

Twitter, square, uber, netflix, linked-in, pinterest, dropbox, airbnb, etc are all middle-big sized and are fairly variable comp wise.

Post reply on HN