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eBPF on Windows

github.com

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Re: eBPF on Windows

#51

Post by jaywalk »

pjc50 wrote: post #42
jaywalk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Windows Server more than Linux. I administer both of them, although I am more familiar with Windows Server which definitely plays a big part in my preference. But I think that's going to be the biggest part of anyone's preference. Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. "Linux guy who is unfamiliar with Wind…

> Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. Funny, I've seen people saying exactly that when newbies bounce off some aspect of Linux, and in both cases it's a usability failure. Discoverability of this stuff on Windows is terrible . Things like powershell remoting exist but getting them working between two random mac…

I don't think comparing discoverability of features in Desktop Linux to Windows Server is fair at all.

And really, if you want to talk about discoverability between Linux in a server role and a Windows Server... Windows Server wins by an absolute landslide. But I don't think discoverability is all that important when you're talking about server administration.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#52

Post by pjmlp »

pjc50 wrote: post #42
jaywalk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Windows Server more than Linux. I administer both of them, although I am more familiar with Windows Server which definitely plays a big part in my preference. But I think that's going to be the biggest part of anyone's preference. Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. "Linux guy who is unfamiliar with Wind…

> Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. Funny, I've seen people saying exactly that when newbies bounce off some aspect of Linux, and in both cases it's a usability failure. Discoverability of this stuff on Windows is terrible . Things like powershell remoting exist but getting them working between two random mac…

As if UNIX was any better with its archaic configuration files and cryptic commands to avoid typing one extra character.

Most of the stuff I learned about UNIX required actually buying books, not much different from Windows.

Drop someone on a proper UNIX just with man to see how far they go joining a NFS server or logging in via yellow pages.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#53

Post by criddell »

coolspot wrote: post #2

And that is, kids, how MS Windows piece-by-piece was slowly transformed into a Linux distro.

I thought they agreed to not compete in the Unix world when they sold Xenix? Is it because SCO is dead that they can jump right into Linux?

Re: eBPF on Windows

#54

Post by hs86 »

Here is a recent comment from Dropbox engineers about the state of tracing tooling on Linux compared to Windows: https://dropbox.tech/infrastructure/boosting-dropbox-upload-...

Is their assessment correct? If so, how comes that we got DTrace in 2019 and now eBPF ported to Windows? Are they trying to consolidate all tooling into one platform?

Re: eBPF on Windows

#55

Post by majkinetor »

agumonkey wrote: post #44
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently spun up a Windows EC2 server instance in aws, running the latest Windows, and was not impressed. The entire system is not very well set up for operation via SSH. SSH is not even enabled by default on ec2. You have to Remote Desktop in, run a bunch of commands to enable it, and even then I could never figure out how to get authorized_keys to work. Once you have SSH running, you can run commands via command…

> Powershell is apparently pretty modern and well designed, but it's quite confusing if you're used to Unix. bash is pretty confusing eve if you're used to unix -- Greg's

Bash is simply outdated. It grown organically and thats what you got. Now you have zillion scripts and situation is even worst then with cobol.

PowerShell was made by Unix people after 2+ decades of bash experience. It solved hundreds of things.

Yet people complain it didn't solve few or it takes a bit more to load (no, verbosity = RTFM). You can't ever please I guess.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#56

Post by pjmlp »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #34
jaywalk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My server administration journey actually began with a pirated copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server. And I don't feel bad for it, because having started very young with Windows Server has directly led to many tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in licensing fees paid to Microsoft at my direction :)

You missed a lot of tedious reboots by starting your experience with the Windows NT family w/ Windows 2000. Windows NT 4.0 was a breath of fresh air, as far as the UI went, compared to NT 3.51, but Windows NT didn't really come into its own, in my opinion, until Windows 2000. The tedious "re-apply the service pack and reboot" or "you thought about changing a setting, so therefore reboot" scenarios were nearly removed…

I do mostly Windows, and given the option would rather keep doing so, however you just reminded me of the "fun" of writing ISAPI extensions on Windows 2000.

For those unaware of it, IIS used to execute fully on kernel level, so ISAPI extensions were comparable to device drivers, which meant any programming error would just kill the kernel, thus requiring a reboot.

So tracking down memory corruption issues on ISAPI extensions was bound to have a countless amount of reboots during the work day.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#57

Post by coliveira »

jaywalk wrote: post #21
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently spun up a Windows EC2 server instance in aws, running the latest Windows, and was not impressed. The entire system is not very well set up for operation via SSH. SSH is not even enabled by default on ec2. You have to Remote Desktop in, run a bunch of commands to enable it, and even then I could never figure out how to get authorized_keys to work. Once you have SSH running, you can run commands via command…

I like Windows Server more than Linux. I administer both of them, although I am more familiar with Windows Server which definitely plays a big part in my preference. But I think that's going to be the biggest part of anyone's preference. Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. "Linux guy who is unfamiliar with Wind…

Windows OS is a thing of the past, when people were supposed to do most of their work from a desktop. As soon as computing become based on remote services, Windows lost its main reason to exist. It is Windows that needs to adapts to the new times, not people working on other OSs.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#58

Post by jaywalk »

jiggawatts wrote: post #40
jaywalk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Windows Server more than Linux. I administer both of them, although I am more familiar with Windows Server which definitely plays a big part in my preference. But I think that's going to be the biggest part of anyone's preference. Everything you complain about Windows Server not supporting is actually supported, but it was your unfamiliarity that was ultimately the issue. "Linux guy who is unfamiliar with Wind…

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." I don't complain that Linux is hard to administer with PowerShell. I learned SSH and Bash. The reverse does not seem to be true, Linux admins generally expect everything to work exactly the same in Windows as in Linux. A negative effect of this is that Windows has many recent hires working on some of their teams with mostly Linux experience, and they're copying Linuxisms into Wind…

Microsoft is getting really lazy with their new "PowerShell for everything" mantra. Many examples with Windows Server and even the Azure Portal. It's great to have the ability to do things with both a GUI and CLI, but then arbitrarily limiting things to one or the other (usually the CLI) gets incredibly annoying.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#59

Post by kube-system »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #47
cptskippy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linux functionality is intended to allow Windows developers to develop for Linux and deploy to Linux.

Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. WSL2 is just there to try to entice companies to say their developers shouldn't need to move to Linux or Mac. No one is seriously developing in WSL.

Why would they need WSL2 to do that? AD and Office were and still are plenty enough to keep MS on corporate PCs.

Re: eBPF on Windows

#60

Post by cptskippy »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #47
cptskippy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linux functionality is intended to allow Windows developers to develop for Linux and deploy to Linux.

Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. WSL2 is just there to try to entice companies to say their developers shouldn't need to move to Linux or Mac. No one is seriously developing in WSL.

It's not really targeted at compiling either. Think line of business apps on web technology like .NET Core, PHP, Python, etc...

With WSL you can setup some docker containers or do some orchestration with Kubernetes and push it off to the cloud with minimal effort.

If you really want a full Linux environment you can spin up a VM in Hyper-V. WSL just makes it easier to do things where a VM is a hassle.

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