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Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

blog.evergreengavekal.com

71–80 of 280 posts

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#71
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that the same for gold? That it’s for speculation? Or stocks.

Gold has a practical application creating demand, in addition to it being a speculative product. I guess you could argue the same for BTC in that you can put short messages in it, but I don't think that's a very valuable thing to have.

You forget the payment network without a third party.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#72
post #26
post #7

The context of the quote: > I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth... So, I think I should say modestly that the whole damn development is disgusting and contrary to the interest of civilization. I find it strange to criticize an asset for how it gets used in extremis. I feel like the same criticism could be levied against the dollar.

For any thing that has both positive uses and negative uses, it seems reasonable to weigh the positives against the negatives. The dollar has substantial non-infringing uses that benefit people. Bitcoin less so, and particularly when weighed against the great harms (environmental or criminal) that Bitcoin brings, I don’t find the criticism baseless.

I don't disagree about weighing pros and cons, of course. But I think that bitcoin advocates would argue that the bitcoin has the same "non-infringing uses that benefit people" and that it's simply a matter of time/popularity until the proportion of "good" uses vs. "bad" uses is similar to the dollar.

Not saying that it's true, necessarily. Just that the current balance isn't the end game and it's not totally fair to criticize a brand new tech/tool/whatever against well-established and well-optimized status quo.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#73
post #16
post #7

The context of the quote: > I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth... So, I think I should say modestly that the whole damn development is disgusting and contrary to the interest of civilization. I find it strange to criticize an asset for how it gets used in extremis. I feel like the same criticism could be levied against the dollar.

Except the primary use of the dollar is good. The same can't be said about the primary use for Bitcoin (which is, at best, speculation).

I'm confused by this statement. The primary use of the dollar is as a currency. The primary use of Bitcoin is as a currency. The fact that so much of Bitcoin's traded volume is used for speculation is actually an issue with excess dollar liquidity available for speculation, not because of some problem inherent to Bitcoin. That liquidity would just move to some other financial product that probably wouldn't make the news because the concept is too complicated to grok, unlike "BITCOIN BAD AND NOT REAL MONEY".

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#74
post #37

> Warren Buffett: "I knew there’d be a question on bitcoin or crypto and I thought to myself, well, I watch these politicians dodge questions all the time … The truth is, I’m going to dodge that question. Because the truth is, we’ve probably got hundreds of thousands of people that are watching this that own bitcoin. And we’ve probably got two people that are short. So, we’ve got a choice of making 400,000 people mad…

It's very interesting, actually. I interpreted as "Bitcoin is bad but the cult of Bitcoin is nuts so we have to be careful about what we say." What's more interesting is how the Bitcoin investor club is managing to delude themselves even with inputs from real proven financiers.

As Upton Sinclair once said, it is difficult to get a man to understand something if the value of his crypto stash depends upon him not understanding it.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#75
The real issue with Bitcoin is tether. Tether printing is practically responsible for almost all the gains in Bitcoin. Just look at Tether volume versus Bitcoin volume and tell me you trust bitcoins valuation when it's backed by make belief tethers.

When you can print make belief dollars, in volumes that were never proven to exist, and pretend trading them for Bitcoin is the same as trading dollars, then of course Bitcoin can arbitrarily rise. The scale of the scam is huge and regulators completely miss it.

The day regulators finally ban tether (because printing dollars should be illegal), you're going to see Bitcoin crash spectacularly. The reason Bitcoin defies all expectations is because it was never supported by real dollars.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#76

> Warren Buffett: "I knew there’d be a question on bitcoin or crypto and I thought to myself, well, I watch these politicians dodge questions all the time … The truth is, I’m going to dodge that question. Because the truth is, we’ve probably got hundreds of thousands of people that are watching this that own bitcoin. And we’ve probably got two people that are short. So, we’ve got a choice of making 400,000 people mad…

Agree that it would be more insightful if specific reasons were given rather than generic fallacies. I think we need to be even more specific is in the type of cryptocurrencies discussed (i.e proof-of-work protocol brings to mind environmental concerns in a way that proof-of-stake does not). This is just speculation, but it's possible that the frame of mind they look at crypto is an asset made "out of thin air" that does not do anything inherently useful in the physical world. Yes, we use gold as currency, but at least it's a good conductor and doesn't oxidize. We can value a company by the amount of goods it can produce in a year. It's harder to make the same case for crypto, whose value is more ethereal (it's stored as bits and bytes rather than a coin in your wallet). It's possible this is what they're thinking.

Crypto will be valuable as long as we as a society think it's so and have the infrastructure to support it. If we enter a nuclear winter, out goes the crypto market, and we'll be left exchanging copper pieces.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#77
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and yes. But, if Berkshire wanted to they could pump BTC to new heights and undoubtedly make a profit.

Doubt they are rich enough to corner the BTC market if that is what you are suggesting.

Berkshire Hathaway's market capitalization is more than $600B, so actually they could corner the market on it if they really wanted to (though it would probably become obvious that they were trying that long before it happened). They have no interest in Bitcoin because, from their previous comments on it, it produces nothing and they only invest in productive assets.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#78
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and yes. But, if Berkshire wanted to they could pump BTC to new heights and undoubtedly make a profit.

Doubt they are rich enough to corner the BTC market if that is what you are suggesting.

All they have to do is invest a billion or so in bitcoin, announce it (as they are required to), then sell it. It would be relatively trivial.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#79
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and yes. But, if Berkshire wanted to they could pump BTC to new heights and undoubtedly make a profit.

Doubt they are rich enough to corner the BTC market if that is what you are suggesting.

I think what the parent comment suggests is "Seal of approval" situation, similar thing that happened with Tesla buying bitcoin caused price surge. When a well known entity invests in crypto, trust in crypto goes up.

Berkshire buying bitcoin would definitely make me buy more bitcoin.

Re: Berkshire: Bitcoin is ‘contrary to the interest of civilization.’

#80
post #26
post #7

The context of the quote: > I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth... So, I think I should say modestly that the whole damn development is disgusting and contrary to the interest of civilization. I find it strange to criticize an asset for how it gets used in extremis. I feel like the same criticism could be levied against the dollar.

For any thing that has both positive uses and negative uses, it seems reasonable to weigh the positives against the negatives. The dollar has substantial non-infringing uses that benefit people. Bitcoin less so, and particularly when weighed against the great harms (environmental or criminal) that Bitcoin brings, I don’t find the criticism baseless.

But if we weigh up pro- and con- Bitcoin is pretty solidly pro. Having a government-resistant unit of exchange was one of the things keeping Wikileaks alive for example.

All the negative stuff was going to happen anyway - including energy waste. Humans waste a lot of energy. Wikileaks on the other hand would have folded like an origami in any pre-cryptocurrency era.

This is the sort of press freedom that humanity has been longing for since ... I don't know. The birth of the press. It is really hard to financially abuse the truth out of conversation now. Which is part of why the blowback is so panicked.

Edit for spite: "contrary to the interest of civilisation" is the sound of a wealthy man who is friends with wealthy men who are terrified of what an organisation like Wikileaks could uncover.

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