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Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

engadget.com

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Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#31

Post by afterburner »

americandesi333 wrote: post #16

This is a very interesting article, especially 'dummifying' the complexities of US telecom markets. I used to always wonder why US was so behind in terms of broadband deployment and the answers that we given to me were always around 'density'. However, there are densely populated areas in US that can create better broadband experience. The challenge here is that the larger telecom companies (AT&T, Verizon) are requir…

You do realize the telecoms want tiered pricing because it would allow them to gouge captive customers even more?

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#32

Post by afterburner »

Free markets need government regulation in order to create competitive environments where the customer is served best. (The "blame the government" in the title refers to blaming the US government for not creating those conditions, and crediting the European governments for doing so.)

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#33

Post by krschultz »

VMG wrote: post #10
ojbyrne wrote: post #2

For those who think this is going to be an anti-government regulation, libertarian orthodoxy type article, here's the tl;dr: "government regulators who have forced more competition"

... after creating monopolies in the first place

The logic there is astounding. The government broke up AT&T into a bunch of little companies. These companies then merged their way back into a handful of large corporations and are still trying to merge even more. Did the government force them to join up together? Of course not. The government is actively discouraging a lot of these mergers, i.e. the government is forcing there to be a more competitive marketplace.

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#34

Post by rapala »

mseebach wrote: post #19
tzs wrote: post #3

The most interesting part in that is that in the UK, both Verizon and AT&T were strong and public proponents of local loop unbundling. When asked about it for the US, they say it is terrible and will hurt consumers.

Because in the US, they own the loops, in the UK they'd get access to them. I think a factor in making this easier in Europe is that all phone lines were put in by entirely government owned and operated enterprises, and it can't be argued that the public doesn't own them. In the US, if I'm not mistaken, most of the phone companies were and are at least somewhat private entities that invested private money in putting…

At least here in Finland the lines were put in by a government owned company. Which was then privatized and later sold to Sweden. That private company now truly owns the lines, and the government is scratching it's head because it has passed a law that broadband connection is a "universal right", and it realized that it needs the lines for crises time communications.

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#35

Post by estel »

rmc wrote: post #30
mseebach wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the US, they own the loops, in the UK they'd get access to them. I think a factor in making this easier in Europe is that all phone lines were put in by entirely government owned and operated enterprises, and it can't be argued that the public doesn't own them. In the US, if I'm not mistaken, most of the phone companies were and are at least somewhat private entities that invested private money in putting…

a factor in making this easier in Europe is that all phone lines were put in by entirely government owned and operated enterprises, and it can't be argued that the public doesn't own them Depends. When Ireland privatized it's state owned teleco, it included all the wires going all over the country.

Yes, but because the original investment was from the public purse, there's still a strong argument that, even if not legally, the public might have a right to some sense of entitlement.

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#36

Post by r00fus »

So this is basically more evidence that government regulation does work (when it's not captured - oil and nuke reg agencies are horribly corrupt).

If there's anything that all folks of political bent should agree on, it should be greater transparency where government and business (ie, moneyed interests) interact - otherwise you get the mess that is the US government "regulation" efforts.

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#37

Post by Nrsolis »

chrisjsmith wrote: post #9
tzs wrote: post #3

The most interesting part in that is that in the UK, both Verizon and AT&T were strong and public proponents of local loop unbundling. When asked about it for the US, they say it is terrible and will hurt consumers.

That's because everyone justifiably hates BT, rather than it made sense.

(As someone who had Internet access in the UK (dialup) for quite a while before moving back to the US, I can tell you that I was surprised at how well it worked and how CHEAP it was. I had Demon and I was amazed at how clueful they were; especially compared to US ISPs.)

But more to the point: the US telecoms are deathly afraid of competition. The same thing goes for the CableCo's. Wireless is killing their wireline business and broadband isn't making up the difference. That's why they are looking at network-neutrality killing services/deals they can monetize. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when one company essentially OWNS the access loop, it's a recipe for high-prices and bad service to customers.

If our FCC wasn't chock full of industry players looking to land a cushy lobbying spot after their term is up, we'd see a lot more competition (and better options for everyone).

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#38

Post by [deleted] »

chrisjsmith wrote: post #9
tzs wrote: post #3

The most interesting part in that is that in the UK, both Verizon and AT&T were strong and public proponents of local loop unbundling. When asked about it for the US, they say it is terrible and will hurt consumers.

That's because everyone justifiably hates BT, rather than it made sense.

[deleted]

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#39

Post by logjam »

VMG wrote: post #10
ojbyrne wrote: post #2

For those who think this is going to be an anti-government regulation, libertarian orthodoxy type article, here's the tl;dr: "government regulators who have forced more competition"

... after creating monopolies in the first place

>... after creating monopolies in the first place

If you are really trying to advance the theory that "the market", left to itself, won't generate monopoly after monopoly, perhaps you could point us to actual examples of those golden times when the absence of regulation served consumers more than they served business oligarchy.

Re: Why is European broadband faster and cheaper? Blame the government

#40

Post by masklinn »

mseebach wrote: post #19
tzs wrote: post #3

The most interesting part in that is that in the UK, both Verizon and AT&T were strong and public proponents of local loop unbundling. When asked about it for the US, they say it is terrible and will hurt consumers.

Because in the US, they own the loops, in the UK they'd get access to them. I think a factor in making this easier in Europe is that all phone lines were put in by entirely government owned and operated enterprises, and it can't be argued that the public doesn't own them. In the US, if I'm not mistaken, most of the phone companies were and are at least somewhat private entities that invested private money in putting…

> In the US, if I'm not mistaken, most of the phone companies were and are at least somewhat private entities that invested private money in putting in the lines

Most of the phone companies were Ma Bell, which had a government-sanctioned natural monopoly from 1936 to its breakup in 1984.

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