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Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

brookings.edu

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Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#221

Post by vmception »

walrus01 wrote: post #146
vmception wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there were no "secret" uses of combinations of entities or laws that was new or surprising from this leak and Mossack Fonseca, big 4 accounting firms, and many other providers - as well as anybody with decent reading comprehension skills - can do it as well. that has nothing to do with client data, which is "secret" even in the "I overpaid my percentage of taxes onshore by not deducting anything" world

You seem to be operating from the position that there is nothing morally wrong with the one percent using every available loophole to pay as little taxes as possible. I'm sure all the laws and corporate structures Mossack Fonsecka made use of for their clients were perfectly 'legal' in the jurisdictions in which the paperwork and shell entities exist(ed). Where I think we have a significant difference of opinion is w…

Our particular comment thread doesn't show me having any strong opinion on anything. You have to assume that the absence of disdain means tacit consent.

I do personally hate ignorance and always had high marks on reading comprehension, our conversation was exclusively congruent with me saying a different source of truth conforms to reality and the authorities in this reality.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#222

Post by euengthrowaway »

aantix wrote: post #168
odiroot wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a software engineer in a EU country, you're definitely not a classically rich person. In USA, maybe? In EU not so much. There's so many professions (quite common at that) that earn more, or even much more than us.

Why aren’t software engineers valued more in EU?

Here’s a thread with 900+ replies on that question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25766884

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#223

Post by cletus »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

Focusing in tax rates is a distraction because no matter what they are the rich don’t pay them.

Until you can get to a point where the rich actually pay taxes then we can talk about rates.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#224

Post by dalbasal »

brianwawok wrote: post #173
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, but there are many more mid-six-figure earners who don't have >$10M in household net worth. And if you tax mid-six-figure earners, you get them, too. If you want to target wealth over $10M, tax wealth over $10M .

Are you excluding primary residence? A lot of paper millionaires due to lucky real estate

I'd prefer it excludes nothing. No matter what the rules are, they will be unfair or harsh on some people in some circumstances. This is true of every kind of tax. It's true of simple rulesets, and complex ones. It's certainly true of the current de facto ruleset around capital gains and corporate income taxes.

$10m is a substantial bound. Above that threshold, we can expect financial fortitude.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#225

Post by dalbasal »

chrisco255 wrote: post #194
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, but there are many more mid-six-figure earners who don't have >$10M in household net worth. And if you tax mid-six-figure earners, you get them, too. If you want to target wealth over $10M, tax wealth over $10M .

How do you tax their offshore wealth?

The same way you tax everything else, with the IRS.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#227

Post by ixacto »

toast0 wrote: post #118
mattnewton wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but the removal of the SALT deduction hurt.

Yeah that was a good one; promise a tax cut for the rich, and give a slight tax cut to the rich in low tax states and screw people in high tax states (which happen to mostly be were the proposer of the tax cut didn't get votes anyway). On the plus side, between the limit on SALT deduction and the increased standard deduction, the mortgage interest deduction is almost effectively dead; which is something that has need…

Why should people in states that do not have an income tax have to effectively subsidize the SALT tax deduction?

Maybe it will make ca/ny think twice about having such high tax rates…

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#228

Post by MattRix »

trentnix wrote: post #219
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

> I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and not in fun way. And predictably, the responses are whether or not you are actually middle class. Because somehow if you're not, you deserve to be f**d hard I guess...?

These taxes affect people who are making $400k+, so yeah, they can handle paying more taxes.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#229

Post by IshKebab »

Havoc wrote: post #176
joe_the_user wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citations for any of this? I have noticed nothing "pejorative" in the language used in the document. I'd be more pejorative myself. The individuals with accounts are described clinically - "high net worth individuals". The ethics of using the leaked data is examined. The situation that individuals with these accounts may be committing crimes is also described dispassionately. It is a fact that these accounts are ofte…

>The situation that individuals with these accounts may be committing crimes What happened to innocent until guilty? Hell I've got an account in an offshore jurisdiction. I guess I need to go do some introspection about my "crime of tax evasion"...

"Innocent until proven guilty" is really "innocent until there's sufficient evidence to strongly suspect you are guilty". There aren't very many innocent reasons to have accounts in tax havens.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#230

Post by insert_coin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #108
insert_coin wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is that of course. That is also the reason why they leave and take their money with them.

If you fully want to renounce US citizenship, sure. You'll pay a hefty exit tax in doing so. You can already do this, though. Monaco exists. That folks like Bezos, Musk, and Gates stick around in the US indicates some intangible benefits here that justify paying some tax.

Keep mentioning guillotines and you'll see how quickly those benefits disappear.
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