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Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

brookings.edu

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Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#51

Post by Swizec »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

> I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes

Fwiw we feel like middle class but we’re really in the top 5% or higher. We’re the rich people these taxes and politicians talk about.

The ultra rich/wealthy are a red herring, there’s only a few 10k of them of them. Only 614 people are billionaires.

7 figure income (salary) puts you in top 0.35% ... that’s 1,120,000 Americans. Not a whole lot.

edit: top 10% starts at $125,000 salary

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#52

Post by vmception »

walrus01 wrote: post #36
vmception wrote: post #6

If you want more insight into this with less pejorative language, ditch the ICIJ and the Brookings study and look at KPMG, Deloitte and PwC annual reports on the offshore industry. The also know what they are doing instead of trying to reverse engineer it like these studies are.

> look at KPMG, Deloitte and PwC annual reports on the offshore industry I'll add that to my reading list alongside the 'climate change' reports written by the global petrochemical industry, and the reports written by hedge-fund traders on what really happened in the 2008 financial crisis.

occasionally some people like to know what they are doing, while the academics and regulators play catch up. instruction manuals are better than studies and leaks decades after the fact.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#53

Post by rsgrn »

Trias11 wrote: post #28
airstrike wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll throw a range out there for the sake of argument, and I'm really low-balling it: 25-30%

So what would be a single reason for person with $100MM of wealth to give $25MM away to wasteful, corruptive government? What kind of benefits the person is gaining by buying $25MM worth of taxes? I thought so too. Give that person a chance to reinvest these money into local economy, growing productive businesses instead of slapping the "filthy rich" label and suddenly there is a lots of capital are used for everyone…

To add $25MM to anti-corruption budgets? Sure, governments are to varying degrees, quite corrupt, but isn't that in part due to the people with leverage and power (aka money)?

Example: Rich people > Shit newspapers > Misinformed populace > Shit political choices > Shit government > Corruption > Rich people now have more money.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#54

Post by vmception »

ficklepickle wrote: post #15
vmception wrote: post #6

If you want more insight into this with less pejorative language, ditch the ICIJ and the Brookings study and look at KPMG, Deloitte and PwC annual reports on the offshore industry. The also know what they are doing instead of trying to reverse engineer it like these studies are.

> KPMG, Deloitte and PwC But aren't they in bed with the companies using these schemes?

The companies that wish to use these would go to KPMG, Deloitte and PwC if it is in the budget, yes. They have offices in every jurisdiction for an unparalleled and holistic view of an ever changing landscape.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#55

Post by guerrilla »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

This doesn't seem to make much sense: You're against a policy because someone lied and didn't implement it when they said they would? You can be for taxing the rich and against people who do otherwise simultaneously.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#56

Post by antb123 »

This book argues actually its western countries like UK, US, and FR that benefit as rulers buy London, Paris or NYC flats in the names of offshore companies.

https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Without-Borders-Power-Centr...

Personally I think the correct response is to tax things rich people like in those countries. Specifically housing, high end cars etc.

Putting beneficial owners on real estate makes total sense.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#57

Post by trappist »

estaseuropano wrote: post #43
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

That's not a result of high taxes but of either badly designed/balanced taxes or of lack of enforcement.

I understood parent's point to be that we obviously can't trust them to do better than this. In any case it seems clear that this is exactly why high tax rates hurt the middle class more than the rich. And everyone know it, and yet it persists.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#58

Post by gzer0 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

Unless you are making more than $400,000, the new tax proposals would not affect you.

What is your definition of "middle class"? Someone making $400k is most certainly in the top 1%.

What tax changes have occurred so far in the past few decades that are significantly affecting you? I would genuinely like to know

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#59

Post by walrus01 »

vmception wrote: post #52
walrus01 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> look at KPMG, Deloitte and PwC annual reports on the offshore industry I'll add that to my reading list alongside the 'climate change' reports written by the global petrochemical industry, and the reports written by hedge-fund traders on what really happened in the 2008 financial crisis.

occasionally some people like to know what they are doing, while the academics and regulators play catch up. instruction manuals are better than studies and leaks decades after the fact.

Although that seems to presume they would put the most honest information on what we could call 'trade secrets' in tax minimization through offshoring in a public document published for the whole world to read.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#60

Post by turbinerneiter »

Trias11 wrote: post #40
celticninja wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does one person need $1bn? If we can ensure that no single individual has to live below the poverty line then I'm less worried about individuals who attain huge stores of wealth.

Instead of chasing the person with $1Bn, wouldn't it be more productive to learn from that person and educate others how to earn good money and live a good, productive lifestyle? Otherwise many are under the impression that looting and robbing is a way to go.

Because poor people don't have time to learn, they have to struggle staying alive. And very often the billionaires business's model is based on poor people making bad financial decisions, like pay day loans or buying products they don't need but are told that they do by the billionaires ad agency.

Also, if the billionaires give a tiny amount of their money to fund schools, people will get educated, earn more money and be able to spend more.

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