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Ursula Le Guin Books

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Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#71
post #47
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a Wizard of Earthsea as a kid, and looking back 2 things stood out to me. First is the diversity of the characters. It's not all white people, although I recall some TV/film adaptions were not particularly faithful to that much to Le Guin's disappointment. The other is a phrase that I still use to this day: "tired is stupid". Particularly when I've been debugging something for many hours, late into the evening…

The notable white people are the Kargish bad guys.

True, but their race is barely even noticeable in the book, and they only even appear in maybe the first 20 pages.

The book is really not about race, and racial issues are pretty much non-existent in the book.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some folks might be put off by how old these novels are..." I've been reading a lot of books from Project Gutenberg over the last couple of decades. Most of their collection ends in the 1920's, so Le Guin seems pretty modern to me by comparison. People who consider something from the 1960's or 70's to be "too old" are really missing out on so much amazing literature. To me, newer stuff tends to be much worse than th…

> People who consider something from the 1960's or 70's to be "too old" are really missing out on so much amazing literature. I completely agree. Personally I read fairly widely in a temporal sense, as long as the story engages me I'll run with it. I think the point I was trying to make is that a lot of folks can be put off by scifi thinking it's a genre brim full of space lasers, FTL space craft and nasty aliens and…

"But sadly it's been a long time, if ever (I haven't checked), since we saw any speculative fiction making it onto shortlists or winning prizes on say the Booker Prize[0], because it's not "literary" enough (bloody snobs)."

Yeah, snobbishness is a huge problem in literature, visual art, and music... in all culture, probably.

Some people want desperately to be the gatekeepers of taste, and unfortunately the rest of society lets them get away with it.

On the other extreme, there's a lot of trashy cultural production ("kitsch") which I find problematic myself, because it tends to be so trite and superficial.. but as a cultural relativist I have a hard time mounting any kind of serious argument against it.

I guess if someone likes something, that should be enough, and there's really not much anyone can say against it that doesn't amount to anything more than "I don't like it".

That conclusion doesn't sit very easy with me, but I can't think of a way around it.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#74
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know. I tried "the left hand of darkness" and didn't like it. Somehow it read more like mediocre fantasy than scifi.

Because the science part takes a backseat to the cultural exploration. I guess that could be either fantasy or science fiction, but since it has spaceships it must be the latter.

That's true of most SF. SF is primarily political, and has been since at least the late 50s. Although there is hard SF where the science leads, it's rarer - and less interesting - than SF which uses imaginary technologies to set a scene for political and social questions.

IMO Le Guin and someone like Heinlein were two sides of the same strand of SF. They're both moralists rather than technical speculators, and in their own way they have a didactic streak where the morality is confidently presented but rather heavy-handed.

Although The Dispossessed is politically ambiguous, it's not ambiguous in an unfathomable, mysterious, or unconfident way. Neither is something like Dune, or the Culture novels. Or even Asimov's Foundation.

Part of the appeal of these authors is that they seem quite sure of their political and anthropological sophistication. While their characters may struggle, there's never a sense the authors feel they could be completely blindsided by human or alien anthropology, or steamrollered by non-human influences which are incomprehensible and impossible to deal with.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#75
post #44

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Interesting. I’ve read the first two books, and had the opposite experience.

I found Atuan a bit dull at 20 (years old), but really moving at 40.

This is great to hear. I think I skimmed a lot of it the first time in my early teens and have skipped it on following rereads.

I recently picked up the omnibus collection and hope to read it soon. Since I haven’t read the post trilogy stories.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"right up there next to LotR" I absolutely hated LotR and everything else from Tolkien that I've read. To me The Wizard of Earthsea is infinitely better, and Tolkien is not even in the same league as Le Guin.

Why is that? Basically why you dislike Tolkien, as LotR and TWoE have different flavor so liking one over the other isn't strange.

It just always seemed super boring, generic, and unimaginative.

The hobbits were also annoying for their one-dimensional, unimaginative, middle-class goodness.

Yes, I know that one of the reason Tolkien's work seems so cliche today is that so much has been influenced by it. Maybe if I'd read it in the 40's or 50's I would have been more impressed, but as I read it in the 80's, by then it already seemed way too generic.

By the way, I am a fan of much older literature than Tolkien, and consider the works that Tolkien himself was probably inspired by to be much more lively, authentic, imaginative, and well written than anything Tolkien himself ever wrote.

Things like, say, Apulius' The Golden Ass, a Roman fantasy written in 1 AD.

Or virtually any of ETA Hoffmann's work -- written in the 1700's.

Or Poe (1800's), or Blackwood (early 1900's), or the French Decadents (1890's), etc..

Or the Mahabarate (400 BC or even earlier).

Or The Count of Monte Cristo (1800's).

Etc, etc, etc..

These works were all far more complex, three-dimensional, interesting, and insightful than the "good guys team up to defeat the big baddie" that LoTR brought.. not that that in itself had to doom Tolkien's work, if he had any profound insight in to the world or the human condition, or maybe had some interesting characters, but he had none.

To me Tolkien has always just seemed as nothing more than a mediocre writer who'd have been long forgotten if there was any justice in world of literature, but instead he's gotten massively overrated.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#77
post #9
post #4

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Srsly. Earthsea is the most potent of all her work.

Well said, but your word choice ("potent") reminded me of this great essay of hers: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ursula-k-le-guin-the... tl;dr she's making a feminist argument that a lot of our stories (Joseph Campbell, monomyth, etc) involve this phallic potency of going out into the world with our pointy sticks and poking wooly mammoths or whatever. she thinks maybe instead of pointy sticks we could thin…

Thank you for that link!

Now I'm wondering what is the story of the Heroine with a Thousand Faces?

Where is the other half of human (pre)history?

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#78
I have a bit of a different take on Le Guin's best work.

I couldn't get into The Dispossessed. I will try again, though.

I read The Wizard of Earthsea when I was a teen and loved it, struggled with the second book (Tombs of Atuan) at the time, then returned to it 30 years later and now consider it a truly fine work as a story and an examination of religion, tradition, and belief.

Immediately after completing Atuan, moved on to the third book in the series (and liked it) but couldn't get into #4.

I've also enjoyed her short stories, including some of her later collections from the 1990s and 2000s.

A book that is seldom on her "best of" lists but I think should be there IMHO: The Beginning Place. I first read it in the U.K. (with an alternate title, Threshold) but returned to it recently and it holds up in terms of the story and the scope of the strange world it describes. Not to mention the beauty of science fiction or literature or prose or whatever you want to call it in the hands of a master:

The creek, his companion and his guide: what of it? It must join a river, or become a river, downstream, and large or small it must run at last into the sea. His breath caught. He stared blankly at his fire, his mind held by that thought: the sea that lay beyond the coasts of evening. The darkness to which this living water ran. White breakers in the last of dusk and out beyond them the depths, the night. The night, and all the stars.

Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#79
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know. I tried "the left hand of darkness" and didn't like it. Somehow it read more like mediocre fantasy than scifi.

Taking science fiction as positing a technological change and then writing a story about how the world is given that change, Left Hand of Darkness is absolutely scifi. It wonders what one human society might be like if cut off for centuries or more after a diaspora. The ambassador in the story seeing if the world can be brought back into the fold is classic scifi. It’s even more nuanced because the ambassador narrato…

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Re: Ursula Le Guin Books

#80

As a huge fan of the Wizard of Earthsea , I could never bring myself to read the other big wizard school books: Harry Potter . Harry Potter just seemed so trite, superficial, and generic by comparison.. but since I never actually read them I can't say if my impression of them from the outside was accurate. Would any other Wizard of Earthsea fans who've actually read Harry Potter be so kind as to compare and contrast…

This might be a bit controversial since we're in a thread about how good Le Guin is, but in my opinion "Name of the Wind" perfects the subgenre. It is the same basic story, even based on the same magic system, but it's more polished, emotional, mysterious and riveting.

The Harry Potter books are amazing, I don't think they're related to Earthsea in any significant way though. There's a reason that they're so popular, and it's not that everyone has bad taste.

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