iPad Camera Multitasking • Hacker News Board

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#121

Post by viktorcode » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

xuki wrote: post #72

bsaul wrote: post #20

the worst kind i think is the special entitlement whatsapp and other popular messaging apps get for abusing voip push notifications (not related to an actual voip call, but still waking up the app).

Remember that one time when Apple let Uber record your screen even in background? https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/05/uber-removing-apple-gra...

I don't think Apple let Uber record device screen from background. I think this is something that Uber would be proactively avoiding doing to remain in App Store.

The linked article states that it was granted to render map on old Apple Watch.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#122

Post by fishywang » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

josephg wrote: post #61

andrepd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can see people in HN are very keen to defend Apple as being the world's most privacy friendly tech company, despite no evidence in that direction :)

Their record isn't perfect, but there's plenty of evidence Apple cares about privacy. For example, Apple added E2E encryption of iMessages long before signal and whatsapp made E2E popular. They also E2E encrypt the location of AirTags - which they absolutely did not need to do. Or the recent opt-in iOS data sharing rules - much to Facebook's frustration. But companies, like governments, countries and people are not w…

Does Apple care about privacy? Yea, maybe, as you said there are a few evidence to support that.

But does Apple have the competence on security to fulfill that care? There are also a lot of evidence to support that the answer is no.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#123

Post by tester89 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

slver wrote: post #49

tester89 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put the camera dot on the side of the app using it. Also is this really the issue? You can have an app voice recording and even quit it and it’s just fine.

Do you know when your boss says “just do x” and you get frustrated by him not realizing the difficulty or implications of his request? That’s us right now. Just add dot on the side of the app. There is one bar, to start with. Not two.

When multitasking the black line splits the bar into two so, Apple could reasonably just put the camera icon on the correct side.

When the app is in overlay mode, there is a bar at the top with the grabber, the icon could go on it as well.

There's enough space, and bars.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#124

Post by bsaul » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #23

bsaul wrote: post #20

the worst kind i think is the special entitlement whatsapp and other popular messaging apps get for abusing voip push notifications (not related to an actual voip call, but still waking up the app).

And I’m very happy about that. Imagine the horror of some apps sending notifications to wake up an app, so they can track your ip/location/whatever. I’d say give more control to Apple.

there are other solutions to accomplish the same goal (edit: maybe not all of the whatsapp features though), but it requires a bit of work. I believe the reason they did that was to allow whatsapp to keep working when they decided to update the voip notification behavior on ios 12 (or 13 ?) and stop forwarding voip if the app didn't actually trigger an "incoming call" screen after the notification has arrived.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#125

Post by urbandw311er » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

joelhaasnoot wrote: post #43

Ah yes, the private entitlements. There's also a private entitlement to disable Apple Pay/PassKit so that it doesn't clash with things like barcodes (for example transit). That one is pretty Google-able though.

Just FYI this is available from Apple on request by any developer, you just need to write to them to explain the use case. I guess this is just to prevent abuse.

(Source: we use this entitlement at our company)

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#126

Post by bsaul » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

GraemeMeyer wrote: post #24

bsaul wrote: post #20

the worst kind i think is the special entitlement whatsapp and other popular messaging apps get for abusing voip push notifications (not related to an actual voip call, but still waking up the app).

Source/more info?

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60815763/how-does-the-wh...

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#127

Post by jorvi » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #117

machello13 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.

Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.

Its not about the technical reason, it's about optics. You pre-approve system apps location access during iOS first setup, but you do not for camera access. Basically, all privacy toggles should be opt-in, not opt-out, even for system apps, even though Apple could easily bypass that for their own apps.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#128

Post by 0x0 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #117

machello13 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.

Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.

The "Clips" app is not as first party as the built-in camera app is. I mean, it still comes from Apple, but it is ONLY distributed as an additional download in the app store. You know, via the same app store we're supposed to trust to sandbox us from malware.

That changes the game completely!

You're conditioned to trust and think iOS and its app store has a permission system, so you can go crazy and download and install any app you want, safe in the knowledge they won't access your camera without your permission.

And then suddenly there's this magic nondescript app "Clips" in the same app store... that just bypasses the entire thing.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#129

Post by Grustaf » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #128

Grustaf wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.

The "Clips" app is not as first party as the built-in camera app is. I mean, it still comes from Apple, but it is ONLY distributed as an additional download in the app store. You know, via the same app store we're supposed to trust to sandbox us from malware. That changes the game completely! You're conditioned to trust and think iOS and its app store has a permission system, so you can go crazy and download and inst…

Apple doesn’t want apps to spy in people against their will. They know Clips won’t spy on people, so no need to ask for any permissions.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#130

Post by Grustaf » Sat, May 08, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

jorvi wrote: post #127

Grustaf wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.

Its not about the technical reason, it's about optics. You pre-approve system apps location access during iOS first setup, but you do not for camera access. Basically, all privacy toggles should be opt-in, not opt-out, even for system apps, even though Apple could easily bypass that for their own apps.

Why? People explicitly trust Apple with their most sensitive data. Asking for permission for specific apps makes no sense.

I don’t personally care about “level playing fields” but even if I did, I wouldn’t expect or want it to include the first party.