We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought • Hacker News Board

Re: We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought

#81

Post by scotty79 » Mon, May 03, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #76

scotty79 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. I thought this was either religious post, so mentioning religion in the comment is ok or that religion in this post was irrelevant and we are talking about culture and humanity so it's fine talking about them in similar way in the comment. And since it's a discussion forum I thought taking contrarian position was fine. I stand corrected that religion is a special topic on HN as nearly everywhere else that can…

It's not about the topic—it's about the quality of the responses. If your post had been thoughtful and curious, rather than religious flamewar, that would of course have been fine. I realize that when it's a topic you have strong pre-existing feelings and opinions about, the tendency to rush into the forum and vent them is very strong. It's not just you—we all have it. In order for HN to be the kind of forum we all w…

I think it's quite curious observation that for example the notion of perceived one-dimentionality of good and evil and their perceived additivity are both simplistically unrealistic and quite hard to shake off because of reinforcement coming from religions pervading our cultures.

But if you don't find that curious, but instead a generic incitement to religious flamewar it's fine by me.

I wonder if you also flagged the post itself, because for me it's a clearly a generic incitement to religious flamewar, because it postulates and praises influences of religion (and even a very specific one), which many people might find morally offensive.

Re: We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought

#82

Post by Nevermark » Wed, May 05, 2021, 6:37 AM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #59

Nevermark wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the point is to suppress history. But that ideas about human rights can have a firmer foundation than a particular religion. I.e. moral principles such as equality and some basic rights result in a safer and more productive society for the vast majority of people, vs. alternate principles. They are less arbitrary principles than saying this group of people is better than another group, and results in a…

Sorry, that's absurd. The rationale for why something exists cannot be divorced from the history for why it exists. And there is no source for a principle of equality in nature.

The history of something, and its current rationale, are two different things.

They are related, but certainly the latter can be talked of coherently separately - if one chooses.

Equality can be argued for in terms of economics, game theory, the objective recognition of commonality between humans, and from many other avenues, without reference to religion.

Re: We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought

#83

Post by torstenvl » Wed, May 05, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #82

torstenvl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that's absurd. The rationale for why something exists cannot be divorced from the history for why it exists. And there is no source for a principle of equality in nature.

The history of something, and its current rationale, are two different things. They are related, but certainly the latter can be talked of coherently separately - if one chooses. Equality can be argued for in terms of economics, game theory, the objective recognition of commonality between humans, and from many other avenues, without reference to religion.

> Equality can be argued for in terms of economics, game theory, the objective recognition of commonality between humans, and from many other avenues, without reference to religion.

Literally none of that makes any sense. Within the system of human dynamics, nothing within that system can place an a priori restraint on the "right" rules for the system's existence, and it is literally impossible to talk about anything objective from within an intersubjective system. You're running up against Godel.

Re: We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought

#84

Post by thisCtx » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #50

thisCtx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically correct but do we need to tell that part of the story going forward? Can we not set the idea of “human rights” on its own pedestal and decide what those are and carry them forward in tradition and song? Why do we have a literal obligation to the asinine part of a dead philosophers opinions on their origin, along with an actual useful concept? Let’s dispense with the all-father bits and see it as we claim…

> Historically correct but do we need to tell that part of the story going forward? Yes. Hiding the truth is almost always wrong.

I didn’t mean “hide it”. It can exist in books but why must we point to it in public today?

The truth is humans behaved as they needed to survive given the world at the time. The rest is analogy and metaphor handed down as song and story. We can never know truth just speculate.

It can be in books but to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, we must update our society as our experience reveals new truth.

Am I under an obligation to discuss Jesus and Roman Empires to educate my kids why we goto a grocery store and why it’s bad to hate on others? Or repeat the Founders when we vote?

Can’t we simply do as we do, justify it as we need to today, without uttering the names of the dead?

Re: We are desensitized to Christianity’s influence on Western thought

#85

Post by thisCtx » Sun, May 09, 2021, 5:51 AM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #83

Nevermark wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of something, and its current rationale, are two different things. They are related, but certainly the latter can be talked of coherently separately - if one chooses. Equality can be argued for in terms of economics, game theory, the objective recognition of commonality between humans, and from many other avenues, without reference to religion.

> Equality can be argued for in terms of economics, game theory, the objective recognition of commonality between humans, and from many other avenues, without reference to religion. Literally none of that makes any sense. Within the system of human dynamics, nothing within that system can place an a priori restraint on the "right" rules for the system's existence, and it is literally impossible to talk about anything…

So all the people alive that are uneducated in US history can’t step foot in America unless they learn about George Washington?

It’s literally impossible for us to be where are without history as it was. It’s not an obligation for us to keep making kids aware Thomas Jefferson existed.