iPad Camera Multitasking • Hacker News Board

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#101

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #31

isatty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tight control over what the software can do is a big part of what makes apple devices have such a good user experience. Even as a power user/SWE/tinkerer I hope that does not change because I want my daily driver devices to be as reliable and zero config as they can be. Sideloading/rooting an idevice as long as it can’t do Apple Pay/bypass find my iPhone is fine of course.

> The tight control over what the software can do is a big part of what makes apple devices have such a good user experience. Correlation does not equal causation. There is a way to provide streamlined default experience without the control. The Mac has so far been an example. Everything under the sun is possible, but apple only paves the path they would prefer you take.

And the Mac has cases like Zoom installing a back door web server so even when you deleted the app, it could reinstall itself.

Another case (not saying it’s nefarious it was obviously an unintentional screw up) was if you had System Integrity Protection turned off an installed Chrome, it would render your Mac unusable. (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/no-it...)

Even Apple is not immune from screwing up on the Mac. A certain version of iTunes deleted users files if the hard drive name had a space in it.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#102

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

supermatt wrote: post #16

slver wrote: post #11

When Apple tests new ground, only their apps have access to a feature. Then only partners. Then only approved developers. Etc. This gradual rollout allows refinement and reduces the odds of screwups. It looks unfair, but Apples goal isn’t to be idealistically fair, but to keep iOS a good experience to users. For every good use of a feature there’s an abuse case.

Reduce the odds of a screwup by giving it to arguably the most popular app in the store? This is nothing more than apple giving themselves and their preferred partners an unfair advantage - somewhat in opposition to Tim Cooks recent statement on developer equality.

Every company does this. They roll new features out to trusted partners first to get feedback and then they polish it. For instance how do you think that AWS [1] can have testimonials about how great a brand new product is before it is available for public release?

Once you make an API public, you have to support it for the foreseeable future. It’s much easier to work with one or two trusted third parties.

When I was working for a small company that sold access to our APIs, we would test it internally first, then a few partners. Then make it available to all of our customers.

Even Epic admitted that it got special treatment from Apple and was able to test and recommend features before they were made public.

[1] I work at AWS. All opinions are my own….

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#103

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

bredren wrote: post #8

I'm used to giving the benefit of the doubt to Apple, but this one needs to be explained. Is this fodder for new discovery in the Epic lawsuit? Due to the nature of that case, can Apple be compelled to provide information on this and all other non-public entitlements along with and who they are granted to and why? Is it reasonable to presume that Zoom was under an NDA on this, and it was an employee mistake bringing…

Seeing that Epic admitted they also got early access to APIs and beta features to test the Unreal engine, they can’t actually argue the point.

It also came out in testimony that Epic asked for special deals with Apple.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#104

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

machello13 wrote: post #99

0x0 wrote: post #57

Another weird example is how Apple's own "Clips" app has a special private entitlement that bypasses the permission prompt for camera access. Would it hurt them so much to prompt for camera access the first time the app is started after installing it from the app store? I found that extremely worrying as it means I can no longer trust the app store to provide a safe sandboxed environment. Suddenly there's an app with…

I guarantee you the product manager for Clips probably just made a lot of noise about trying to reduce onboarding friction as much as possible, and their manager talked to someone else's manager and got that entitlement. I agree it's bad optics, but on the other hand I'm not sure there's a practical difference between the Camera app having this entitlement, and Clips having this entitlement. Both are made and distrib…

Camera app should ask too.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#105

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

gregoriol wrote: post #81

mrtksn wrote: post #51

This doesn't bother me at all. Wouldn't it mean that if you talk to Apple about something you need they might actually give it to you? I suspect that people imagine Zoom getting a privilege due to their inartistic value but I don't think that this is the case. I think that it's just a business and there's no reason why you can't have it with Apple too. I imagine, engineers in Zoom needed this to accomplish something…

It would be business if there was a way to know this thing exists and to contact them and request it; otherwise it's a hidden secret between them and that partner, which is a disadvantage to all other developers paying 99$ every year to have access to it.

Marco Arment - a one man development shop, albeit well known, was able to work with the iOS team to get better audio support for the Apple Watch. It’s not just big developers.

Have you noticed that when every big tech company announces a new product they already have testimonials about how well the product works?

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#106

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #88

Not great timing for Apple, given the US government's sudden new interest in anti-trust and the plight of small business.

What’s the government going to do? Say no large company is able to beta test products with a few companies before they make it publicly available?

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#107

Post by machello13 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #104

machello13 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you the product manager for Clips probably just made a lot of noise about trying to reduce onboarding friction as much as possible, and their manager talked to someone else's manager and got that entitlement. I agree it's bad optics, but on the other hand I'm not sure there's a practical difference between the Camera app having this entitlement, and Clips having this entitlement. Both are made and distrib…

Camera app should ask too.

Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#108

Post by smoldesu » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

josephg wrote: post #61

andrepd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can see people in HN are very keen to defend Apple as being the world's most privacy friendly tech company, despite no evidence in that direction :)

Their record isn't perfect, but there's plenty of evidence Apple cares about privacy. For example, Apple added E2E encryption of iMessages long before signal and whatsapp made E2E popular. They also E2E encrypt the location of AirTags - which they absolutely did not need to do. Or the recent opt-in iOS data sharing rules - much to Facebook's frustration. But companies, like governments, countries and people are not w…

For the record, Apple didn't give the world LLVM. They bought out the original development team and then had them develop a proprietary fork for Apple devices, oftentimes referred to as Apple LLVM.

Also, while I'm here, I still am not convinced of Apple's privacy dedication. The T2 chip was a joke for anyone familiar with PRNG generation or the actual exploits being patched with it, and they've refused to add E2E encryption to debatably the most important product in their lineup: iCloud. Furthermore, their collusion with PRISM and history in China leads me to believe that their statement "privacy is a human right" is all security theater. Apparently, it's only a human right if you don't live in a place where their government disagrees. Then Apple has to abide by their rules. And if they're happy to turn over information in China, there's nothing stopping them from colluding with the US to weaponize their information.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#109

Post by 0x0 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

machello13 wrote: post #107

erikpukinskis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Camera app should ask too.

Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.

Because the mere fact that an entitlement for bypassing permission prompts exists, means that non-apple apps could try to exploit it (see for example the PsychicPaper exploit).

Designing in such a huge hole in the permission system just makes it that much more difficult to trust it.

Re: iPad Camera Multitasking

#110

Post by scarface74 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #100

josephg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their record isn't perfect, but there's plenty of evidence Apple cares about privacy. For example, Apple added E2E encryption of iMessages long before signal and whatsapp made E2E popular. They also E2E encrypt the location of AirTags - which they absolutely did not need to do. Or the recent opt-in iOS data sharing rules - much to Facebook's frustration. But companies, like governments, countries and people are not w…

>Google makes some of their most valuable IP - Android and Chrome - (mostly) opensource and open platforms. This was out of market necessity. They likely wouldn't have open sourced either if they thought they could have dominated the market without it. Moreover, with both of these products they're drip feeding more and more functionality into closed source appendages (e.g. google play services). Their end goal is lik…

What most people consider “Android” - open source + all of Google’s proprietary add ons is not open source. A true AOSP only phone would not sell in any kind of volume in the US. Google yields a lot of power over Android based on its add ons.

Every major tech company open sources software that doesn’t impact its compatibility and encourages adoption of its platform.