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Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

nytimes.com

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Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#21

Post by billpaetzke »

bbg wrote: post #19

I want to love electric cars, but I see two big issues: (1) if they go mass market, all that electricity will still have to be generated somewhere. Coal? Nuclear? (2) The batteries need rare-earth minerals, which are brought to market through environmentally-degrading open pit mining. Furthermore, at this point, most rare-earths are available almost exclusively from China.

#2 is not an issue for Tesla or Toyota. There are no rare-earth materials inside Tesla's motors [1]. Toyota is also using Tesla's common-earth motors [2].

[1] http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/10/tesla-opens-rd-labs-and-...

[2] http://alttransport.com/2011/01/toyota-is-developing-electri...

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#22

Post by [deleted] »

daimyoyo wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

When I'm on the highway, I tank my car up and it'll be roughly 200 miles at halfway and 300 at 1/4. Granted, I've never driven my car to vapors on the highway but it seems logical that a tank of gas will get me around 400 miles. It's a 14 gallon tank so that translates to around 30mpg highway. I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for an equivalent efficiency in an electric car.

[deleted]

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#23

Post by sliverstorm »

daimyoyo wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

When I'm on the highway, I tank my car up and it'll be roughly 200 miles at halfway and 300 at 1/4. Granted, I've never driven my car to vapors on the highway but it seems logical that a tank of gas will get me around 400 miles. It's a 14 gallon tank so that translates to around 30mpg highway. I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for an equivalent efficiency in an electric car.

What makes you think that's a realistic expectation?

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#24

Post by ugh »

bbg wrote: post #19

I want to love electric cars, but I see two big issues: (1) if they go mass market, all that electricity will still have to be generated somewhere. Coal? Nuclear? (2) The batteries need rare-earth minerals, which are brought to market through environmentally-degrading open pit mining. Furthermore, at this point, most rare-earths are available almost exclusively from China.

There are, however, plenty of rare earth minerals around. China is only supplying nearly all of them because they are mined nowhere else. A mine in California will, for example, reopen soon. It’s simple supply and demand, really.

I’m not terribly worried about getting rare earth minerals. I’m worried about the environmental impact. Looking into alternatives (which seems very possible) certainly looks like a good idea.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#26

Post by dstein »

I've always thought the Volt sounded way over-engineered. Why bother with a fancy hybrid engine rather than concentrating on making a lightweight, affordable all-electric car? The simple approach is always going to win. Zenncars.com was taking this approach but I'm not sure of their progress.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#27

Post by georgieporgie »

daimyoyo wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

When I'm on the highway, I tank my car up and it'll be roughly 200 miles at halfway and 300 at 1/4. Granted, I've never driven my car to vapors on the highway but it seems logical that a tank of gas will get me around 400 miles. It's a 14 gallon tank so that translates to around 30mpg highway. I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for an equivalent efficiency in an electric car.

30mpg highway is really good and does not reflect the average experience of a consumer.

That said, I think you're (sadly) right, but not for the reason you're stating. Because electric cars can't be recharged in five minutes, consumers will suddenly think they have to go even further on a charge. They will completely ignore the fact that they commute 15 miles each way, every day, and the fact that they already have that minivan they use for long trips anyway.

That said, your argument doesn't really apply to this car. "The EPA official all-electric range is 35 miles (56 km), and the total range is 379 miles (610 km)." (Wikipedia) That qualifies as, "closer to 400 miles per charge."

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#28

Post by meemo »

daimyoyo wrote: post #12

I've said before and I'll say again: Electric cars will not gain widespread acceptance until you can travel the equivalent of a tank of gas on one charge. Tesla motors is close, but you need at least 300 and closer to 400 miles per charge.

If you're worried about range, then there's a old-fashioned gas tank in there to extend the range.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#29

Post by masklinn »

sliverstorm wrote: post #15
daimyoyo wrote: post #12

I've said before and I'll say again: Electric cars will not gain widespread acceptance until you can travel the equivalent of a tank of gas on one charge. Tesla motors is close, but you need at least 300 and closer to 400 miles per charge.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

Drive more efficient cars? With bigger tanks? The small sedans I usually drive pretty much always have ranges of above 800km (500 miles), and my range record on a single tank was with a turbo-diesel 405[0], with careful driving and a 70L tank (huge for a mid-range sedan, I recognize this, most mid-ranges are around 50L these days) was above 1400km (870 miles).

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_405

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