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Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

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Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#21

Post by toomim »

jl2718 wrote: post #16

Read early versions of the Ripple white paper, before they decided to make XRP a store of value. The compulsion to cash in on a settlement layer by establishing your own scarce medium of exchange is too great.

Just to be pedantic, what happened is the original founder sold it to some skeezy guys who wanted to cash in on the digital currency crazy, and those skeezy guys added XRP as a way to cash in.

So it's not quite that the original founder felt pressure to create the token, but he did feel some pressure to make money, and eventually that led to a token.

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#22

Post by Ar-Curunir »

nomadiccoder wrote: post #9
AgentME wrote: post #2

>Conversely, cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum have decentralized the process of issuing and managing a currency. But while the operations of such currencies, based on blockchains, have been fully decentralized, the trust graph of these cryptocurrencies have remained entirely centralized. Everyone need to trust Bitcoin to transact in Bitcoin, and everyone needs to trust Ethereum to transact in Ethereum or…

That quoted paragraph also caught me up upon first read. After I thought about it I do agree that there is some level of trust in the protocol itself and actions of other actors using that protocol can influence that trust. But I suppose that the trust needs to be applied at some level. Trusting end-to-end encryption is a real trust. If someone comes along and finds a way to factor large prime integers the system wou…

> factor large prime integers

factoring large prime integers is very easy =P

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#23

Post by tyingq »

eternalban wrote: post #4

This is a curious post. There is apparently a Settle Network and a github repo. But S. Spolu is not listed among the execs running it. https://settlenetwork.com/ https://github.com/spolu/settle https://settlenetwork.com/settle-network/ (Scroll to bottom for the mug shots)

"settlenetwork.com" seems to be unrelated to this, other than having the words "settle" and "network" in it.

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#24

Post by realcr »

Geee wrote: post #7

I think this idea has been implemented in Offset https://www.offsetcredit.org HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438241

It's true. In addition, spolu gave some very useful pieces of advice during the design of Offset. Too bad settle.network is not live anymore.

I am not sure whether https://settlenetwork.com is actually affiliated with the original settle.network written by spolu.

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#26

Post by nano_o »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #6

Aspects of this sound similar to Stellar and Ripple. Could folks with more knowledge elaborate on the differences?

The Stellar Network relies on nodes declaring quorum slices, which can be understood as trust relationships, but it implements a single global blockchain. So I don't think it's very similar.

Edit: one similarity is that token issuers in Stellar can remain authoritative on their token.

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#27

Post by eternalban »

tyingq wrote: post #23
eternalban wrote: post #4

This is a curious post. There is apparently a Settle Network and a github repo. But S. Spolu is not listed among the execs running it. https://settlenetwork.com/ https://github.com/spolu/settle https://settlenetwork.com/settle-network/ (Scroll to bottom for the mug shots)

"settlenetwork.com" seems to be unrelated to this, other than having the words "settle" and "network" in it.

github repo points to it. and the archive.org page footer points to the repo.

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#28

Post by meltedcapacitor »

fastball wrote: post #15
est31 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrencies can still be subject to hard forks which allow seizure transactions. Likely in the future governments will demand such changes, if they don't outlaw cryptocurrencies entirely. Furthermore, bitcoin's value is highly volatile. So your initial investment of $100 might be worth $5000 or $0.10 in 3 years. You might not have to trust the network itself, but you have to trust the value of the asset to remai…

Not sure how you think governments could demand changes from major cryptos. They're not currently beholden to governments, and it seems unlikely they'll become more beholden as they grow larger . Volatility is ameliorated by stablecoins pegged to fiat currencies. Furthermore, the long-term goal is to not need an "interface to the real world", because you will be paid in crypto and you will pay for things in crypto. E…

Several governments can trivially do a 51% attack and take over Bitcoin if they so wish, for example:

- The Chinese government can get all the main pool/farm owners (all self-doxed) in a room, offer them the choice between being executed or send all blocks their way for central validation. If they choose execution, send government employees to reboot the farms with new code.

- The Taiwanese government can cease the next batch of mining kit as it comes out of TSMC and lol all the way to the (central) bank.

- The US government can tell Coinbase "regulate this thing as told or die". Then all the suits who now own crypto via suit-friendly custodians will in a panic coordinate and fund a 51% attack to save their "investment".

Just a few ideas :-).

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#29

Post by tyingq »

eternalban wrote: post #27
tyingq wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"settlenetwork.com" seems to be unrelated to this, other than having the words "settle" and "network" in it.

github repo points to it. and the archive.org page footer points to the repo.

Where?

I see a link to https://settle.network which isn't the same as https://settlenetwork.com

Re: Decentralized trust graph for online value exchange without a blockchain (2017)

#30

Post by loceng »

nomadiccoder wrote: post #9
AgentME wrote: post #2

>Conversely, cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum have decentralized the process of issuing and managing a currency. But while the operations of such currencies, based on blockchains, have been fully decentralized, the trust graph of these cryptocurrencies have remained entirely centralized. Everyone need to trust Bitcoin to transact in Bitcoin, and everyone needs to trust Ethereum to transact in Ethereum or…

That quoted paragraph also caught me up upon first read. After I thought about it I do agree that there is some level of trust in the protocol itself and actions of other actors using that protocol can influence that trust. But I suppose that the trust needs to be applied at some level. Trusting end-to-end encryption is a real trust. If someone comes along and finds a way to factor large prime integers the system wou…

Didn't Ethereum very early on push an update that undid a $50 million hack?
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