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Use Alacritty instead of Termite

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Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#161

Post by zxzax »

Cloudef wrote: post #152
zxzax wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why would games, or non-gnome apps care about decoration? I don't think they would which is why the low level toolkits like SDL are the ones that have to handle it. Unfortunately that's the way it is, libwayland is very barebones and doesn't have a way to draw decorations. >this is not the only case where gnome devs just decide to be jerks. Please do not assume bad faith and suggest that someone is being a jerk to y…

Considering the bug report has lots of examples of why they need SSD or at least some other solution (libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, libdecoration doesn't look "native"), also including constructive feedback, but the gnome devs close it with reply "Enough spam for today. Locking the issue.", I consider them to be quite the jerks indeed.

>libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, libdecoration doesn't look "native"

The solution there would be to fix gtk to support vulkan, and to fix libdecoration so it looks better.

>I consider them to be quite the jerks indeed.

Please stop, this is assuming bad faith and it's not helpful. The mutter bug tracker is an inappropriate place to give this unrelated feedback about this, when those issues you talked about are problems in libgtk and libdecoration. That's why the issue is closed. If you are just going to throw flames and don't want to discuss real technical solutions to the problem then I'm going to end the conversation.

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#162

Post by topaz0 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #89
fullstop wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you group tabs in Sway? I have a lot of tabs open and each window represents a specific group. I navigate primarily by keyboard, and having grouped tabs keeps me organized. I'll give Kitty a shot. I've been using konsole recently and it works for the most part, except when sending files through picocom. ctrl-a+s pops up a message about terminal flow control even though the keystroke is intercepted by picocom and…

Yes. Sway represents the world as a tree. You can nest containers as you like. e.g. H[firefox T[Alacritty Alacritty]] describes a horizontal split with Firefox on the left side and a tab container of two Alacrittys on the right side. If you want H[S[T[T[Alacritty Alacritty] H[Alacritty Alacritty] Alacritty] V[Alacritty Alacritty]] Alacritty], go wild! When you subsequently want to move a group of things around, you c…

For what it's worth, my habit in i3/sway is usually to represent "groups of tabs" as single tabbed containers on different desktops, and rarely to have multiple tabbed containers next to each other on a single desktop. Although occasionally I do the latter, too.

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#163

Post by mLuby »

detaro wrote: post #84
mLuby wrote: post #73

"Obsoleted" is a word? I've only heard "made obsolete" before, or replaced/discontinued/deprecated.

yes, it is. Even in dictionaries, e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete

Yeah wow TIL it's been around least since the 1730s. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=obsoleted

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#164

Post by codemac »

rthomas6 wrote: post #141
rkangel wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things pushing niche workflows that the Gnome team didn't consider On the other hand Gnome3 is the first Linux desktop that I think is really non power user friendly. The laptop my partner uses at home is a slightly old Thinkpad I put Fedora on last year and it took her about 20 minutes to work out to use everything (less time than she took on a Mac). I think the Gnome developers have been pretty hostile to outside…

> On the other hand Gnome3 is the first Linux desktop that I think is really non power user friendly. I think Plasma and Cinnamon also belong in this group.

Considering Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome 3, it seems to be significant evidence of Gnome 3's influence. And Plasma was first released in 2014, 3 years after Gnome 3.

Gnome 3 had a HUGE affect on desktop environments, due to Gnome 2's popularity.

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#165

Post by codemac »

zests wrote: post #104
enriquto wrote: post #81

I have no beef with gtk/gnome and the like, but I find it really funny when developers use such colorful language. Still, as a heavy terminal user, I fail to understand what's the big deal with the choice of terminal. I have used only xterm for more than 20 years (with a short stint with gnome-terminal, and I didn't find any relevant difference). It starts instantaneously and doesn't make any fuss while it's running.…

Many terminals lack ligatures. Once I started using a monospace font with ligatures I could never go back.

Best font + terminal combinations to try this with?

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#166

Post by Cloudef »

zxzax wrote: post #157
Cloudef wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mpv has since implemented client side decorations. Yes eventually somebody implemented them, and they look like this: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/pull/7186 Needless to say, mpv prefers xdg-decoration if compositor supports it. >There aren't any zero code solutions It's zero-code for client if the compositor actually handled the border. And yes, compositor is the more likely component to actually have the found…

I assume that screenshot is a joke, the decorations don't look like that for me, they look small and unobtrusive. I actually prefer them to SSD because they take less space, and they are consistent with the way the mpv decorations work in macOS. >It's zero-code for client if the compositor actually handled the border. With respect, it's not. The client still must implement the semantics of the xdg-decoration protocol…

>I assume that screenshot is a joke, the decorations don't look like that for me, they look small and unobtrusive.

I'm not exactly sure how they look like currently, as I don't use gnome (nor wayland), but that was the latest PR regarding CSD I was able to find.

>With respect, it's not. The client still must implement the semantics of the xdg-decoration protocol to tell the compositor that it wants a border.

Sure in wayland's case. But this is only because both systems needs to be supported. But it could be even more simpler with SSD only.

>Major versions of Qt and GTK are stable, i.e. if you target Qt5 and Gtk3, that won't change.

This is if they actually are. With dlopen/dlsym, you effectively get rid of all type-checking making the code more fragile.

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#168

Post by zxzax »

Cloudef wrote: post #166
zxzax wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that screenshot is a joke, the decorations don't look like that for me, they look small and unobtrusive. I actually prefer them to SSD because they take less space, and they are consistent with the way the mpv decorations work in macOS. >It's zero-code for client if the compositor actually handled the border. With respect, it's not. The client still must implement the semantics of the xdg-decoration protocol…

>I assume that screenshot is a joke, the decorations don't look like that for me, they look small and unobtrusive. I'm not exactly sure how they look like currently, as I don't use gnome (nor wayland), but that was the latest PR regarding CSD I was able to find. >With respect, it's not. The client still must implement the semantics of the xdg-decoration protocol to tell the compositor that it wants a border. Sure in…

SSD only isn't really an option, from what I have seen, eventually app designers want CSD to reduce clutter and to give their apps a better native look. This is true on all platforms, see for example macOS Big Sur.

>This is if they actually are.

They are, you would see terrible breakage with every app if they weren't. Your dynamic linker is effectively using dlopen/dlsym under the hood, it's not doing any type checking.

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#169

Post by sangnoir »

codemac wrote: post #164
rthomas6 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand Gnome3 is the first Linux desktop that I think is really non power user friendly. I think Plasma and Cinnamon also belong in this group.

Considering Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome 3, it seems to be significant evidence of Gnome 3's influence. And Plasma was first released in 2014, 3 years after Gnome 3. Gnome 3 had a HUGE affect on desktop environments, due to Gnome 2's popularity.

Plasma's predecessor (KDE 3) is closer to Gnome that Plasma itself. Plasma is as close to an antithesis of Gnome as you could get (outside of tiling window managers) - everything is customizable/extensible

Re: Use Alacritty instead of Termite

#170

Post by jstimpfle »

zxzax wrote: post #154
jstimpfle wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has to occasionally work on a Gnome desktop, I can confirm that they still haven't fixed type ahead in Nautilus. Another point is that their Alt-Tab has a strange auto-grouping behaviour that totally breaks my workflow. (I have multiple terminal windows open and switching between them is a pain, it has to be seen to be believed). Two big annoyances, and reading that type-ahead thread quoted above is qu…

>it's been a long time I've felt such an enormous disgust at the amount of neglect and arrogance that is being displayed there. Please do not assume bad faith. Type-ahead has some confusing usability issues, such as that it only matches against the beginning of the filename, which from my reading is why it probably will not be brought back. The way forward is to help get the current solution up to par. I feel your pa…

I don't assume bad faith, following Hanlon's razor it's obviously stupidity and probably a culture of arrogance engrained into a larger group (I know very little about the organization there, but there has been a lot of heated debate for years about other groups connected to redhat).

How can they otherwise ignore such an obvious, massive load of complaints with dismissive and side-stepping comments?

> Type-ahead has some confusing usability issues, such as that it only matches against the beginning of the filename

Please, explain to me, what exactly is confusing about that? That it matches precisely against the beginning of the filename?

It's the exact polar opposite of confusing, and furthermore it's extremely useful in my (and many others') workflow for navigating large directory trees where I know which path I want to take in advance (obviously this is a frequent situation for all the things I'm currently working on).

And I am convinced this is not a coincidence or a pecularity of my workflow, precisely because the behaviour of type ahead is simple and predictable and also matches how humans tend to remember names, which is most likely by their initial letters.

This old and proven workflow reduces a lot of stress coming from increased visual-motoric interaction, compared to the search behaviour in Nautilus where the screen gets updated in unpredictable ways (both in terms of the files that are displayed, and also in the time lag to when they are displayed and interactable). We're talking multiple or many seconds of wait and stress that this behaviour can cause, even on beefy machines. Noone working in UI would disagree that operations should aim to take less than 100ms.

(by the way I don't dispute that more involved navigation facilities are useful sometimes, for example I like to use glob-patterns that start with a * or something from time to time. However prefix search is clearly the most accurate and fastest tool for like 90% of my navigation needs).

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