The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box? • Hacker News Board

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#361

Post by kossTKR » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #256

“ It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary,…

Exactly, the fact that people continue discussing China as some absurdly isolated exotic entity completely ignore the EcoHealth smoking gun - and the fact the USA is the ruling empire with their hands in absolutely everything including Chinese capitalism, military and trade.

No matter how much posturing and geopolitical theatre is going the same fragmented transnational elite is continuing actual resource oriented realpolitics completely outside of the narratives presented in the media that is owned by this class.

Whatever the purspose of this gain of function research is - it's not even discussed in MSM media even though you can go read the docs right out in the open. Same with the EMA bird flu pharma scandal that no one talks about these day that just happened 10 years ago.

Regarding the research it seems it's obviously not about bilateral war, as both complexes in China and the US is "in on it", could be everything from a push towards surveillance, depopulation, centralisation to stock manipulation. Who knows, when there is seemingly no actual research journalists left. The ones who do question things, are quickly removed from Google, banned from Twitter and deleted from Facebook.

Actual oldschool journalism today will make you a "conspiracy theorist" by todays standards because a small minority of people are stupid and being actively misled. Dystopian!

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#362

Post by pclmulqdq » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #286

pclmulqdq wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci and his close colleagues (including the current head of the CDC) were ardent proponents of gain of function research, and funded gain of function research at the WIV to the tune of millions of dollars. Didn't anybody think it was weird that the head of the NIH, a research institution, not a public health institution, became the top public health communicator during COVID instead of the heads of the CDC? He had…

>Didn't anybody think it was weird that the head of the NIH, a research institution, not a public health institution, became the top public health communicator during COVID instead of the heads of the CDC? He had a massive conflict of interest and wanted to protect it. 1. How does being the "top public health communicator" protect his conflict of interest? 2. Fauci isn't the head of the NIH, his position was "Directo…

1. It protects his conflicts of interest by allowing him to routinely dismiss things like the lab leak hypothesis and control the narrative around the virus and its vaccines. It has allowed him to shape public policy in a way that deflects responsibility away from himself and his friends.

2. I was wrong. Wikipedia shows that the NIAID is part of the NIH. Still a research organization, not a public health organization.

3. Previous outbreaks, such as Ebola, SARS, MERS, etc. have _all_ been spearheaded by the CDC. The CDC is the branch of government responsible for managing disease outbreaks. The CDC head is therefore the "top public health communicator." It's worth noting that being a "communicator" here is much more than about talking to the public; it's also about who talks to the politicians.

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#363

Post by thepasswordis » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

okprod wrote: post #329

I have colleagues in relevant sectors in China and they were telling me about lab origins when this first started last year. I didn't believe them but I'm not qualified to really have an opinion on the matter.

Even amateur OSINT people in the US were making the (imo obvious) connection between WIV and what at that time was called the wuhan flu.

What is the likelihood that a novel SARS virus happens to emerge in the same major metropolitan area that also happens to host a BSL4 lab, which happens to be in a couple try with a long history of labs leaking SARS viruses?

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#364

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

exegete wrote: post #225

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to turn upside down. The burden of proof is equal for both theories.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim and the more extraordinary the claim the more extraordinary the evidence needs to be in my opinion.

What is least likely? A group of scientists in a quasy communist country do a shit job of safety and end up endangering the worlds population or that a virus that coexists with Bats, somehow and for no (direct) evolutionary benefit, becomes able to infect humans?

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#365

Post by sumedh » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #300

The origin of COVID-19 is going to be one of the biggest news stories in 2021-22 IMO. China's global reputation is going to take a hit. I don't think they did this intentionally. I think everyone had the best of intentions and either they found something deep in a bat cave or there was a lab mishap. I've gone down the rabbit hole on this issue. Here are some interesting links https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=R01A…

> I don't think they did this intentionally.

Then why did they cover up and downplay the seriousness at the start?

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#366

Post by throwaway210222 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #363

okprod wrote: post #329

I have colleagues in relevant sectors in China and they were telling me about lab origins when this first started last year. I didn't believe them but I'm not qualified to really have an opinion on the matter.

Even amateur OSINT people in the US were making the (imo obvious) connection between WIV and what at that time was called the wuhan flu. What is the likelihood that a novel SARS virus happens to emerge in the same major metropolitan area that also happens to host a BSL4 lab, which happens to be in a couple try with a long history of labs leaking SARS viruses?

> What is the likelihood that a novel SARS virus happens to emerge in the same major metropolitan area that also happens to host a BSL4 lab,

You have the causality the wrong way around.

The lab is there [Wuhan] because that is where the coronaviruses reservoirs are.

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#367

Post by AzzieElbab » Fri, May 07, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #358

AzzieElbab wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rogin covers this in his book “Chaos under heaven” and his earlier articles. Here is Rogan/Rogin snippet https://youtu.be/IqhKlkkc2Eo

You're saying that Rogin reported that Anthony Fauci "covertly funded gain of function research", and that this fact (which constitutes an absolute blockbuster story) wasn't reported or corroborated anywhere in journalism, by an author who's everywhere in print and on TV but who somehow never said this in public, and the only linkable source is a podcast? Yeah, this didn't happen.

this is fascinating. Rogin is making the claim right before your eyes and your conclusion is that he doesn't mean it because he never printed it?

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#368

Post by raducu » Fri, May 07, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #319

followtheplot wrote: post #294

"... proponents of lab escape can explain all the available facts about SARS2 considerably more easily than can those who favor natural emergence." "The natural emergence theory battles a bristling array of implausibilities." This is a fantastic article, but amazingly almost all of it is year-old news. Most of this was known in March 2020, and nearly all of it by the end of 2020. How does it take so long for the trut…

Unfortunately, the reality is that we have no new data on the origin of covid-19. No on-the-ground analysis has been allowed in China.

But the article explains why no data actually leads credence to the lab-escape hypothesis.

For SARS and MERS we had data within months.

We don't have data on animals because it was a lab-escape event.

The claim that lab workers got flu-like symptoms in late 2019 blew my mind.

I wish I had time to investigate myself, but I'm 90% convinced that the reporter is correct and this is a lab-escape event.

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#369

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

We don't want to know. That may sound a bit glib but I think it's true. What would be the reaction if we could determine the outbreak was due to an unintentional leak? China cannot reimburse the world for the economic damage covid has caused. It cannot be held accountable for all the lives that have been lost. It cannot compensate the world for the diminished quality of life we've all suffered. But there will be plen…

If this was intentional, then I don't know what we can or should do.

China may not be able to fully compensate the world financially, but if you win a billion dollar lawsuit against me, you won't get your money, but you will still get my car and anything else I own.

Re: The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box?

#370

Post by cameldrv » Fri, May 07, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

Jeema101 wrote: post #275

uvesten wrote: post #251

I think most people are confused because of CCP’s successful disinformation campaign, and also out of fear of being seen as prejudiced. The fact is that an epidemic with a corona virus (never before or since seen in the wild) with a peculiarly efficient ability to infect humans started in the _only city in the world with a lab where gain-of-function experiments on corona viruses_ is located. Just apply occam’s razor,…

It could be that you're confusing cause and effect, though. How do we know that the virus (or a precursor) wasn't already circulating in China, and was simply detected in Wuhan because of the fact that there are experts in coronaviruses who reside there? (Also I'm not entirely sure your statement about the gain of function research is correct. A Google search doesn't seem to provide any evidence one way or another.)

They’ve tested a lot of banked samples and performed a lot of investigations over the past year, and the first publicly known cases are still in Wuhan.