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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#681

Post by igetspam »

shlant wrote: post #651
dev_tty01 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely respect your choices and your opinion, but I don't understand them. Is the wolf diabolically evil? No cash involved of course. Is that the issue? What if I hunt the animal and kill it and then consume it, like the lion, the tiger, the hawk, and the dolphin? Is the hunter morally superior to the farmer who raises a steer, providing clean water, well grassed pasture, and then kills in a humane manner for p…

animals do not have a concept of good and evil so why would we apply it to them? I think looking at how things in the animal kingdom work and using that as a justification for our actions is a very low bar. We have the cognitive and emotional ability to understand that things like murder/rape/etc. are wrong do we not? If you just take a small step from that and recognize the sentience of animals, it doesn't seem too…

They don't have words for it but if you've met shelter dogs or animals that have suffered abuse, they definitely understand the concept of evil. I have a rescue pig that I adore but he doesn't trust men because he lived a life of abuse. I can only assume that he sees men as evil, even if he can't make that statement. Some things are just natural. Humans seem to think we have a superior understanding of all things but some things are immutable truths and natural law. They don't require calculus to understand, just to describe.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#682

Post by 0-_-0 »

cubesmarching wrote: post #678
0-_-0 wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of things that bring distress to a small minority but we don't argue that it should be stopped on a societal level.

70 billion farm animals are the small minority, and 8 billion people are the majority? Is it ok to cause suffering to humans who are minorities because they are minorities?

No, vegans are the minority in the above example.

A minority of people are caused distress by having their children vaccinated because they think vaccines cause autism. Should we stop causing suffering to this minority by stopping all vacciantions? Or is it ok to cause suffering to humans who are minorities because they are minorities?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#683

Post by igetspam »

kenneth wrote: post #458
atweiden wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel you. I stopped eating meat for 40 years for the same reason. But... they are on the same food chain we are, and they’d eat us in a heartbeat, right? Herbivorous ruminants like cows would never eat you, and would generally never harm you unless provoked. Breeding intelligent lifeforms in a bespoke way to murder them for cash — whatever the reason or creature involved — is diabolically evil. If you do this for…

This comment is a fantastic example demonstrating why everyone hates vegans[1]. I'm all for everyone being more aware of where and how their food is made. If you come out of it choosing not to consume certain categories, that's fantastic. But the moment you start demonizing others for not making the same choices as you, you become an anti-social and dislikable person, and one that's not conducive to building a better…

People don't hate vegans. They hate preachy jerks. Hyper bacon eaters are just as annoying. Nobody wants to talk about your religion, no matter what it is.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#684

Post by twhizzle »

dotsam wrote: post #650
twhizzle wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t bother me a bit. I understand some people get real emotional about this type of thing, but I truly do not care. I’d just prefer we start gene editing to create brainless cows so people can find something else to get all uppity about.

I like the idea of gene editing to remove brain stems, although that still leaves us with the input/output issues (feed, methane etc), which perhaps we can also engineer away. If animal suffering doesn't bother you, does human suffering?

> If animal suffering doesn't bother you, does human suffering?

Things I can’t control or fix don’t bother me.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#685

Post by lambdaba »

ajdegol wrote: post #663
lambdaba wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I arrived at this conclusion both from personal experience (I've tried all the apparently reasonable diets) and the scientific data. Nuts are barely digestible. Our digestive system doesn't look like a herbivore / fruit eater at all. Surely we've had some, but that's not what we're build for. I think we're like dogs, we can survive on a diversity of foods (and get sick from some of them) but we thrive on meat. That's…

Sure hints would be good and much appreciated! When you say "our diet doesn't look like a herbivore/fruit eater at all", I see tables like this [1] and it would strongly suggest the opposite. Maybe it's propaganda... I don't know, I should like to see something like a ScienceBrief on it. In terms of the last thing you said. You phrased it as "australopithecus ate meat"; it seems they predominantly were herbivorous ac…

Re: human digestion, this comparison of human digestive tract vs other animals https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Bravo-10/publicat...

I didn't mean to imply that australopitecus was predominantly carnivorous, but I recently found out they had tools for hunting and/or cutting flesh, just to make a point that the trend started much earlier than homo sapiens.

Might come back with more links/thoughts later

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#686

Post by cubesmarching »

0-_-0 wrote: post #682
cubesmarching wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70 billion farm animals are the small minority, and 8 billion people are the majority? Is it ok to cause suffering to humans who are minorities because they are minorities?

No, vegans are the minority in the above example. A minority of people are caused distress by having their children vaccinated because they think vaccines cause autism. Should we stop causing suffering to this minority by stopping all vacciantions? Or is it ok to cause suffering to humans who are minorities because they are minorities?

When people choose not to be vaccinated, they endanger those who are unable to be vaccinated. Foregoing vaccination harms others.

The normalized consumption of animal products endangers all people due to the impact it has on the environment in which we live. We are currently living through yet another pandemic caused by the consumption of animals. We are currently dealing with the effects of climate collapse worldwide, helped along by inefficient resource usage for things like animal agriculture.

Consuming plants instead of animals is a trivial change to make both at the individual and societal level and does not harm others.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#687

Post by scotty79 »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

I don't get why exact taste of burgers is so important to some people.

I can stomach burgers from McDonald's if I haven't eaten them in few months. But if I eat them more than one or two times a week they very quickly start to taste like the garbage they are.

It's really dreadful form of food and I was assuming people eat it as last resort when they are really hungry. Not that they indulge in them because the specific flavor is so unique and wonderful.

I always prefer a wrap. But fries and mcmuffins with egg and bacon are super tasty.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#689

Post by sidlls »

ellipsisfrog wrote: post #571
kenneth wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a fantastic example demonstrating why everyone hates vegans[1]. I'm all for everyone being more aware of where and how their food is made. If you come out of it choosing not to consume certain categories, that's fantastic. But the moment you start demonizing others for not making the same choices as you, you become an anti-social and dislikable person, and one that's not conducive to building a better…

I'm a vegan and I try to be respectful to non-vegans and their choices but moral decisions implicitly contain moral judgements. If I think eating animals is wrong and you eat animals there is no way around me thinking that you are doing something wrong. I don't need to harangue you about it, which in any case is not at all effective as a method of persuasion, but usually I don't need to for people not to like it. I e…

Opposition to an assertion--and make no mistake, it's purely an assertion--of moral superiority isn't anger. Reaction to haranguing born of that same assertion can be anger, but that's a different matter.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#690

Post by efiecho »

sweetheart wrote: post #673
efiecho wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes they do. Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods. You can easily check if a vegan is actually following a vegan diet without cheating, because after a few years they will develop the sunken eyes and hollow collarbones, definitely not looking healthy.

Wait then why do literally none of the staunch vegan people I know look like this? And why does the American Dietetic Association officially state that a vegan diet is completely fine for all stages of life?

> Wait then why do literally none of the staunch vegan people I know look like this?

Maybe your are lying or in denial? I have first hand experience with the cult like properties of the vegan movement. It's very clear from how ex-vegans - people how really tried to embrace veganism, but had to quit because of health issues - are harassed by current vegans, any criticism of the movement cannot be tolerated and ex-vegans are very dangerous as they expose that veganism is not for everyone.

> And why does the American Dietetic Association officially state that a vegan diet is completely fine for all stages of life?

Lobbyism? Research some of the former controversies. The name is Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics now by the way.

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