Given that plants aren't conscious and do not feel pain, any line of reasoning that is predicated on the assumption that plants are conscious and feel pain is irrelevant.
Your argument is just antinatalism, but for farm animals. Every animal will suffer in its life. Eradicating an entire population to reduce suffering is pretty extreme. Other arguments for veganism, like the environmental one, are much more palatable.
Where, exactly, did I argue for the eradication of an entire population? Ending the exploitation of animals does not require eradicating them.
>Cattle grazing causes less animal death than industrial plant agriculture (land clearing, pest control, insecticide usage, etc.). Even grass fed beef are fed fodder which is the result of industrial plant agriculture. >No they don't. Healthy vegans are few and far between. Yes they do. Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods.
> Yes they do. Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods. You can easily check if a vegan is actually following a vegan diet without cheating, because after a few years they will develop the sunken eyes and hollow collarbones, definitely not looking healthy.
Wait then why do literally none of the staunch vegan people I know look like this? And why does the American Dietetic Association officially state that a vegan diet is completely fine for all stages of life?
To those that don't want to become 100% vegetarians, even though we all know it's better for everyone including the animal that'slaughtered; How about just using meat in small quantities, and for seasoning? A little bit of beef/chicken goes a long way. Most Americans do not need more protein. I have gotten by with a few pounds (less than 5 lbs) of meat a year. If a cash strapped, loser, like myself can do it, anyone…
I honestly believe that the best strategy to take at the moment is to teach people recepies for good and tasty vegetarian food. I am not vegetarian but my absolutely favourite dish is Blueberry dumplings with sour cream. I don't care if its vegetarian or not its simply good food. Its much easier for people to make the 'ethical' choices when they are given good alternatives. The whole thing with meat eaters are evil k…
This is a good point about finding good recipes that use less animal products.
It seems like there's a lot of focus on replacing meat with something else pretending to be meat but I don't know that you're going to bring many people around that way. Vegetarian food needs to be good in it's own right, and it absolutely can be, but that generally means going beyond your grandma's copy of "Better Homes and Gardens New Cookbook".
The person you're replying to has a different opinion from yours and you seem very offended by it. It hasn't got anything to do with lockdown in London, how booked steak restaurants will be there, or how much the "emotionally intelligent people" cringe. This all feels like non sequitur or ad hominem. I eat meat with no plans to stop and I don't have a problem with the comment you're replying to.
I'm not offended. I'm examining why their transparent attempt at emotional and moral manipulation is how they are approaching this issue. It's pathetic.
Again. You're attacking them. If you let them express the opinion and move on, nothing happens. But you call them a pathetic manipulator. That to me suggests disproportionate anger and a bit of paranoia. I don't think they're really trying to manipulate you so much as explaining how they feel about it.
That nutritional profile also includes increased risk of GI tract cancers among other serious conditions, so I'm not sure what the argument you're trying to make is.
There is no compelling evidence that eating unprocessed beef carries any significant cancer risk. This claim is obvious a-priori bullshit if you know much about human metabolism. Plain old meat is very rapidly metabolized almost entirely into peptides and absorbed; there is little room for it to cause GI problems. Hence why there are a lot of people with plant-related digestive issues (e.g. celiac) but very few peopl…
What are you, some sort of beef industry lobbyist? This is a widely accepted fact among the medical community and supported by reams of evidence. Metabolism has almost nothing to do with this. The link between environmental exposure (red meat, smoking, etc.) and cancer has to do with DNA damage and inflammation.
This is a silly straw-man. First of all, most humans in society die relatively peaceful deaths (and this proportion would increase if we supported euthanasia, which I am in favor of in certain cases). Second of all, humans form powerful attachments to their kin and peers, and the death of a human brings great and lasting sadness to all other humans in their group. This is not something observed with cattle and most o…
|Second of all, humans form powerful attachments to their kin and peers, and the death of a human brings great and lasting sadness to all other humans in their group. This is not something observed with cattle and most other animals (though there are exceptions), except for short periods of time. straight up false. cattle mourn death and seperation from their calves very obviously, for days. Heres just a small exampl…
To those downvoting: do you believe that dogs are able to mourn when their companions die? There are myriad examples of this occurring. If so, do you believe that dogs are the only animal capable of this?
I have tried Beyond Meat. My concern is changing my diet to lock in with a single vendor selling a patented food product with 30%+ margins. Is there a reason this amazing, world-changing, sustainable product isn't being sold at a reasonable or better price than ground beef? Tyson operates at 13% margin. Ground beef is 25% cheaper than Beyond. Compete on price and I will buy it; pretty simple. Otherwise, this all feel…
What would the value be of a company that was the sole provider of all imitation meat to America and was the only meat you could buy because of environmental laws against sale and production of legacy meat.
> a world where some people continue eating meat and keep raising cows, pigs, chicken, sheep, goats and other animals that would die off if they weren't consumed seems better to me than a purely 100% vegan world I'm not a vegan, but I've heard this argument before and find it to be confounding. Are we saying that livestock suffer less because they are safe in the knowledge that their species is being conserved? Why w…
I don't have an argument I find perfectly convincing myself for this either. I can mention that the ultimate value of life is propagation and survival, so most likely this is the consideration that gives me this feeling, but I explicitly called this a feeling and haven't claimed it is a clear rational argument. As for wild populations, I'm not sure, but my understanding is that most cows have been bred to produce mor…
I have encountered what appeared to be a domesticated sheep that had gone wild in a nearby nature reserve. Its hair had grown to smother its face, and when we startled it it began running in random directions, only to headbutt a tree and continue on another random direction. I can't imagine that it would be about to survive well in this state, so you're probably right. Though it somehow had been surviving, nonetheless