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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#631

Post by fredophile »

tsimionescu wrote: post #500
atweiden wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, I’ve dabbled with ento-vegetarianism — i.e. eating insects — but still walked away from it feeling disgusted with the idea people breed these insects only to put them to death inside gas chambers. I would object to farming alligators on the same grounds. Even if the thing is effectively a living dinosaur guaranteed to eat you alive in the wild, there’s something diabolically evil about “growing” them for…

This is such an untenable moral ground... The death we offer animals is orders of magnitude better than nature subjects them to, almost without exception. If we could offer them a better life as well, as we once did, I would have 0 moral qualms about our meat eating.

I don't necessarily agree with the earlier poster but how we slaughter the animals isn't really the issue they have. If aliens came and promised to provide for you for your whole life but on your 30th birthday they would kill you painlessly would you take that deal? What gives us the right to impose that kind of deal on other living beings?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#632

Post by twhizzle »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals.

The “animal cruelty” angle is probably the least effective tactic to get people to stop eating meat.

I do not care that cows are killed for me to eat burgers. I doubt the wolves care what I think when they kill the sheep.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#633

Post by [deleted] »

goodoldneon wrote: post #570
ipaddr wrote: post #170

I'm generally surprised no one brings up the negative health benefits of processed foods. It is not healthier to get rid of meat only to replace it with high salt chemically processed food that tastes like meat. It seems like we are going backwards. You know what uses less greenhouse emissions, less water and less land? The orginal plant based food that gets processed into a beyond burger. If you really care about th…

About once a month I have a huge craving for a burger, so I’ll eat a Beyond burger. It’s worse than eating veggies but it helps keep me vegetarian. Without it, I’d probably eat a real burger to satiate my meat craving. Since I’m an all-or-nothing person (major personality flaw), eating meat once a month would turn into a slippery slope. Beyond meat helps to keep me on the vegetarian straight and narrow

[deleted]

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#634

Post by shlant »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #191
sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. I find this interesting, in that cropping has plenty of violent against animals but one step removed. I have a small cattle property, we run on hill country with diversified ecosystem, mixed grass and bushland. We have a heap of native animals living across the property. And at the end of the day the steers do get sent of for slaughter after 18 to 24 mont…

Definition of veganism:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment"[1]

The key parts being "seeks to" and "as far as is possible and practicable". Veganism is not about being perfect (that's impossible), and although some might speak as if it is, they should not be taken seriously.

What we do know is that striving for a more vegan way of living is unequivocally less harmful for sentient beings and I and many others think that is a very noble endeavor.

1. https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#635

Post by garden_hermit »

virtue3 wrote: post #448
danShumway wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complicated topic, with multiple responses, but I'm only going to touch on one specific aspect of it. Reducing violence in regular farming is an admirable goal that people should strive towards. It's also worth talking about the environmental costs of ingredients like palm oil, and it's worth talking about the human costs of products like cocoa. I don't mean to diminish any of that at all, it's all worth pa…

> However, the majority of meat we eat today comes from factory farming, and the majority of the feed for those animals comes from... traditional crop farming. This is incorrect. Cattle is fed primarily on grass. They are grain finished to increase weight at the end. A lot of that space is unusable as crop fields. Also a lot of animal feed is based off of plant byproduct, corn husk, wheat "What most livestock in the…

What the OP is talking about mostly is factory farming, where cows will likely not eat very much grass, and where animals will not be free to graze.

I think most people would agree that traditional livestock farming is a much better system, ethically and environmentally, but it would struggle to meet global demand.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#636

Post by mkl »

xdennis wrote: post #539
tagawa wrote: post #304

Sorry to be picky but… "less greenhouse emissions" -> "fewer greenhouse emissions"

I don't think that's how it works. My understanding is that you use "fewer" for discreetly countable things (fewer tables, fewer people) and "less" for continuous things (less rice, less time). Emissions are continuous. I don't emit one emission now and another emission the next hour.

"Less" is used for countable things too. Some time ago some people tried to make up a rule that it shouldn't be, but "less" has been used for countable things for over 1000 years. See some linguists' takes: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003775.h..., https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2819

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#637

Post by string »

Thorentis wrote: post #612
sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

Where do you draw the line between animals and plants? Plants are a form of life. Is it the pain? What is it about animal pain that is morally objectionable? Because humans can feel pain too, therefore animal pain is also bad? Assuming we grant that, what if animals were put to sleep before being killed? Does that then make it okay? I find the whole "violence against animals" argument to be incredibly hand-wavy and w…

I draw the line in that I don't eat anything with a central nervous system. I don't doubt a biologist might make me reconsider my understanding of a CNS, but I've always found it a clear line for me personally.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#638

Post by user-the-name »

koheripbal wrote: post #516
0-_-0 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could make the argument that it's possible to ethically raise animals in a way where it's a good deal for both sides, as long as an animal suffers less than it would suffer in nature. If causing unnecessary suffering is unethical, then the opposite should be a moral imperative, so this simple mathematical argument leads to the conclusion that ethically raising animals should be morally superior to veganis…

The extension of this argument exposes the absurdity, as it would imply that we go out and domesticate nature. Stop lions from killing their prey in the Savannah, etc... and convert them to a vegetarian diet.

This is something I do wonder, though. Is that absurd. Is it actually absurd. Might that not actually be what the morally and ethically correct course of action is.

We know nature is cruel. We know nature is absolutely horrendous and horrific. Why do we just accept that as a given?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#639

Post by lambdaba »

knuthsat wrote: post #630
lambdaba wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep saying "orthorexic" and I keep saying "toxic", up to you to look up the info which is abundant.

Cyanide in apple seeds is toxic in proper amounts, should I avoid consuming apple seeds, or apples completely? Toxicity of certain compounds in meat or other foods has nothing to do with the food itself being healthy or unhealthy. Similarly how antioxidant, vitamin or macronutrient content has nothing to do with that particular food being healthy or unhealthy. Promoting the idea that a particular food or ingredient i…

Here's a riddle for you: if seed oils were not toxic, why are mice given seed oils as low as 4-5% of calories in order to cause cancer in the presence of other carcinogens? They don't get cancer with the carcinogens alone, they have to add the seed oils to trigger the cancers.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#640

Post by shlant »

k__ wrote: post #497
toper-centage wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a post of the front-page of reddit a few days ago saying that most Americans are lied to about the fish they are buying in restaurants and supermarkets. I think it hilarious when people like me, urban dwellers, tell me to my face they only buy meat from some small butcher because they only trust him, or some variation of that story. Truth is, we have no idea where our food comes from, labels lie, and seller…

I don't know about the whole world. But in the small town I grew up, the butcher would buy live animals and kill them in the backyard. You could even come and watch and he would tell you where he bought it then go to the farmer and look at the animals.

I think that's why the commenter qualified with "urban dwellers". Modern urban life abstracts away a lot of the realities of our industries.
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