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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#601

Post by uxcolumbo »

tsimionescu wrote: post #528
kosinus wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a vague line of reasoning. We want to give animals quality of life, because it’s a humane thing to do, but also slaughter them, which is inhumane. So which is it: is the life of animals just as important, or less? The same line of reasoning can be applied to humans. We can have really shitty deaths categorised as ‘old age’, yet euthanising is controversial.

> but also slaughter them, which is inhumane This is the very thing I completely disagree with. All living things die, and almost all animals die by being killed by other animals. Why is it "inhumane" when this killing is done by a human with a sharp knife or electrocution, but it is "humane" when done by a wolf tearing at their throat, or by insects eating them alive? And euthanasia of people is controversial for ma…

The lion needs to kill to survive.

We in the modern world don't need to kill anymore to survive.

We have the choice, so why choose to kill an animal just for culinary pleasures?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#602

Post by lambdaba »

jacobmischka wrote: post #580
lambdaba wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem today is not an unlimited supply of meat (for most of the world) but an unlimited supply of sugar and seed oils. And the super / unnaturally sweet fruit, this is what's hacking us.

I didn't say it was the problem causing the obesity epidemic. Donuts being worse for you doesn't make eating fatty red meat so often healthy. Also, while super sweet fruit can be problematic, it's far from one of the biggest problems. No one is getting diabetes from eating too many bananas.

I agree on the whole fruits, but processed fruits, with the fiber thrown out, are just as bad.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#603

Post by belorn »

atweiden wrote: post #292
tomcam wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel you. I stopped eating meat for 40 years for the same reason. But... they are on the same food chain we are, and they’d eat us in a heartbeat, right?

> I feel you. I stopped eating meat for 40 years for the same reason. But... they are on the same food chain we are, and they’d eat us in a heartbeat, right? Herbivorous ruminants like cows would never eat you, and would generally never harm you unless provoked. Breeding intelligent lifeforms in a bespoke way to murder them for cash — whatever the reason or creature involved — is diabolically evil. If you do this for…

Cows are opportunistic omnivorous and will eat meat if its small enough to be swallowed whole. They don't have much of an instinct to hunt, they not have the teeth to cut large animals into parts, nor do they have the stomach acid or immune system to eat partially rotten meat. There is nothing however to stop them from eating small amount of fresh meat, such as the very young of other animals and insects.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#604

Post by uxcolumbo »

tsimionescu wrote: post #573
tpm wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it would be possible for the farmed animal to really have a fulfilling life (which I don't think is possible in the current, industrialized world), there are still humans who are caring for the animals, there are humans who are killing and dissecting them, and they too are affected by the inhumane process, and I think our empathy should extend to them too.

> which I don't think is possible in the current, industrialized world This is a concern I share. > there are still humans who are caring for the animals, there are humans who are killing and dissecting them, and they too are affected by the inhumane process, and I think our empathy should extend to them too. As far as I know, farmers don't suffer any kind of psychological damage from caring for and slaughtering anim…

Then you should watch the Dark Side of Dairy documentary.

A farmer started to cry and asked for the camera to be turned off - when he was asked what happens to the mother and baby cow.

Or look on Youtube farmers talking about 'There is a person in there' when talking about their farm animals. Or farmers who have given up on exploiting animals and switched to different kinds of farming.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#605

Post by rickspencer3 »

wyager wrote: post #196
rickspencer3 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my part, I enjoy fast food burgers (think Wendy's, Burger King, etc...). These burger patties are not exactly rare Kobe beef. Once you put that thing on a bun, add cheese, slather it in sauce, etc... I don't find the difference in the patties very noticeable. I notice how fresh the lettuce is more than the patty. I eat plenty of meat, so I don't have an anti-meat agenda. But, for me, for fast food burgers, I may…

The nutritional profile of a fast food beef patty is actually quite excellent, especially once you factor in the cost. The same cannot be said of the fake meat alternatives.

I am not eating Burger King for the nutritional profile.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#606

Post by necovek »

jb_gericke wrote: post #437
atweiden wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human evolution is poorly understood, and the assumption that any choice $X supposedly made by early humans led to our forefathers’ anamolously rapid brain development is flatly speculative. > Unlike most great apes today, whose diet is primarily plant based, we can thank the incredible nutrient density in meat and our incredible hunting and tool creating ability for prefrontal cortex development. Complete and utter…

Zero speculation regarding the diets of chimpanzees, orangutans and gorillas (well studied and documented) [1]. [2] B12 sources up until it was possible to synthesize in the 60s were exclusively from animal products. Also, if you're even vaguely predisposed to anemia, you will likely struggle getting enough hema-available iron from plant sources without supplementation. Glad you are able to live off of entirely soybe…

I am pretty certain GP was objecting to the meat-based diet being responsible for

> prefrontal cortex development

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#607

Post by whywhywhywhy »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals

Isn’t this disingenuous because the endgame will be the genocide of almost all farm animals. If they’re so environmentally unfriendly, can’t look after themselves, serve no purpose because they’re no longer food then why would we let them live and continue to breed them.

So there will still be some final suffering until we remove these species from the earth.

Obviously we as a race are responsible for creating animals that can’t look after themselves but to hold up the environment argument makes killing them all the greater ethical choice.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#608

Post by necovek »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #436
masonic wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we can't raise the animals that folks want to eat without _also_ growing plants to feed those animals But... we can raise food and dairy animals on a combination of natural range grazing and agricultural byproducts that otherwise need to be disposed of (e.g. cotton seeds, almond hulls, distillers' and brewers' spent grains, etc.)

Not unless worldwide (and particularly US) total meat and dairy consumption drops precipitously.

You can "trivially" solve that by increasing the cost of the meat: if "non-humane" animal raising was forbidden, as a mental exercise, what would happen other than prices going up?

Before the expansion of animal farming (60-100 years ago), meat was usually Sunday-lunch material in most of the world.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#609

Post by WA »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #607
sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals Isn’t this disingenuous because the endgame will be the genocide of almost all farm animals. If they’re so environmentally unfriendly, can’t look after themselves, serve no purpose because they’re no longer food then why would we let them live and continue to breed them. So there will still be some final suffering until we remove these species from the ear…

Put them in a national park.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#610

Post by louthy »

kenneth wrote: post #458
atweiden wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel you. I stopped eating meat for 40 years for the same reason. But... they are on the same food chain we are, and they’d eat us in a heartbeat, right? Herbivorous ruminants like cows would never eat you, and would generally never harm you unless provoked. Breeding intelligent lifeforms in a bespoke way to murder them for cash — whatever the reason or creature involved — is diabolically evil. If you do this for…

This comment is a fantastic example demonstrating why everyone hates vegans[1]. I'm all for everyone being more aware of where and how their food is made. If you come out of it choosing not to consume certain categories, that's fantastic. But the moment you start demonizing others for not making the same choices as you, you become an anti-social and dislikable person, and one that's not conducive to building a better…

I think if the 'campaigning vegan' spent more time trying to espouse the virtues of reducing meat intake than the, frankly, bullying approach I often see, I suspect they'd have a larger impact on the issues they feel are important.

A statement like:

   "Have you thought of eating meat one day less per week?"
Followed by:

   "benefits the climate because..."
or:

    "Have you thought of buying your meat from "
followed by:

    "benefits the animal because..."
Is a lot more likely to have a positive impact over:

    "you're the same as a murderer"
Perhaps, just perhaps, the meatatarian would realise that the non-meaty food they have one day per week is pretty good, and worth expanding to more days. Even these small changes could have a positive impact on animal welfare and climate if enough of us did it.
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