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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#561

Post by 6P58r3MXJSLi »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> is they require no violence against animals.

The argument is interesting and proponents of this idea also make good points generally, but it's also a lie.

If we really cared about violence against animals, we wouldn't bring cats home.

The simple fact that the domestic cat population has been steadily increasing and ever more rights have been granted to them, that an entire industry of pets food is killing the same animals we used to make burgers to make cat food and nobody finds it problematic, means that we, as humans, do not really care about animals, their well being and their lives.

After carefully quantifying cat populations and predation rates (and the uncertainty of both), the scientists calculated that domestic cats pounce on one billion to four billion birds a year in the lower 48 states, as well as 6.3 billion to 22.3 billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of reptiles and amphibians.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/essay-to-...

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#562

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

cubesmarching wrote: post #554
dalmo3 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now do one for plants.

Plants are not conscious and do not feel pain. But even if your argument is in good faith and you genuinely believe that the plight of plants is equivalent to the suffering of animals, then that is still an argument for veganism, as producing a kilo of animal flesh requires several kilos of plant matter, thus increasing the total amount of suffering relative to simply eating plants directly.

>the plight of plants is equivalent to the suffering of animals

You assume that the plight of humans is equivalent to the suffering of animals.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#563

Post by dotsam »

roenxi wrote: post #552
dotsam wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a quality of life tipping point at which you would rather never have been born? If you were offered a life consisting entirely of pain and suffering, would you accept that? If the quality of life is *not* an issue, we could logically maintain that we are morally obliged to maximise the number of beings brought into life -- however short and horrible that life may be -- because any form of existence is prefer…

The compromise position then would be to breed them so they didn't suffer. It'd probably be good for the meat quality too. The idea there is a moral issue here is suspect. It is obvious I, personally, don't want to be factory farmed. It isn't obvious that factory farming is a moral problem. It is all moot anyway, vat-grown meat is going to be more hygienic, cheaper and all-round better once they work out the kinks. B…

I hope cellular agriculture will help reduce real meat consumption, and decrease overall suffering. Breeding out the ability to suffer is also desirable.

Do you not think that factory farming causes suffering? Causing avoidable suffering seems like a moral issue to me.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#564

Post by lambdaba »

open0 wrote: post #559
lambdaba wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this for the example https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU There is a ton of info, just look around. Also, what is the common ingredient in all processed foods? This is what is making people fat. Omega-6 integrates in body fat, easily oxidized and unstable, rendering our own fat inaccessible for energy, so we're chronically hungry, tired, and inflamed. Than add in sugar and salt for hyperpalability. We've been hacked. See…

Chia and flax seeds are some of the best sources of Omega-3s...

Flax doesn't have omega-3, but alpha-linolenic acid, which depending on your genetics you might not be able to convert to omega-3 sufficiently (see rs174547 gene).

Sufficient omega-3 intake doesn't entirely mitigate the ills from omega-6 anyway, and there are other toxins in seed oils as well.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#565

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

pacomerh wrote: post #281
Gustomaximus wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. I find this interesting, in that cropping has plenty of violent against animals but one step removed. I have a small cattle property, we run on hill country with diversified ecosystem, mixed grass and bushland. We have a heap of native animals living across the property. And at the end of the day the steers do get sent of for slaughter after 18 to 24 mont…

It's funny how the counter argument (even if friendly) will always be "But your solution is not perfect and also doesn't solve the issue completely". It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be better.

>doesn't solve the issue completely

I don't see an issue with animal suffering but I do see an issue with greenhouse emissions. Greenhouse emissions are concrete and measurable.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#566

Post by tsimionescu »

cubesmarching wrote: post #537
tsimionescu wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not an argument that fairs well on HN in general, but the fact that we can eat something this similar to a burger but without the slaughter of living, feeling, individual being is so unbelievably important and incredible. The problem I have with this argument is that it always seems to me to focus on the life of the animal, but not on the death of the animal. All animals eventually die, and most natural dea…

All humans eventually die, and most natural deaths are far more horrifying than how we would be able to murder other humans, especially in modern times (though even traditional slaughter is nothing compared to dying of cancer, stroke, being murdered in a car crash, etc.) So, I think that it is important how the humans are grown (prisons are absolutely horrible, unacceptable places to live in, and should ideally becom…

This is a silly straw-man.

First of all, most humans in society die relatively peaceful deaths (and this proportion would increase if we supported euthanasia, which I am in favor of in certain cases).

Second of all, humans form powerful attachments to their kin and peers, and the death of a human brings great and lasting sadness to all other humans in their group. This is not something observed with cattle and most other animals (though there are exceptions), except for short periods of time.

Thirdly, there are some admittedly specieist arguments to be made in favor of the value of human cognition as compared to that of a cow or pig or any other animal that currently exists on Earth. At the very least, you could say that every human has the potential of being a great artist or otherwise improving the lot of all current and future humans (and perhaps even cows) in a way that an individual cow does not.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#567

Post by entropyie »

greshario wrote: post #551
entropyie wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irish person here with a couple of random facts: - Ireland is one of the larger per-capita beef producing countries - Beef lobby is quite powerful - Our local Chipper / Take Away / "Fish & Chips" shop sells Beyond Meat burgers - As a meat eater who grew up on a beef farm, I can say they look and taste amazingly good... 95% as good as a real burger. Most cattle are treated well in Ireland, living outside on fresh gras…

Cattle are treated well in Ireland, and sheep too (comparatively). However, pigs and chickens are treated terribly, and we have a total cultural blindspot to it. We have nothing to be proud of when it comes to animal welfare.

No argument here... my comment was more to say that meat-free burgers can be a success even in a country that has a high opinion of beef... This is a positive development IMHO. If you told Irish people 10 years ago that their local chipper would be selling meat-free burgers, they'd have thought you were mad...

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#568

Post by roel_v »

Nursie wrote: post #477
roel_v wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think it hilarious when people like me, urban dwellers, tell me to my face they only buy meat from some small butcher because they only trust him, or some variation of that story." I bought half a pig some time ago; I have a copy of his (probably 'her'?) earmark here next to me on my desk. I get an invitation each year to go watch it when it goes out to pasture for the first time that year. I can choose to have th…

> for which I don't know the English word - it's a grayish slab, often eaten on rye bread here in North-Western Europe In British English, that would be "Head Cheese" or "Brawn", or at least head cheese is likely to be a similar product, made from the animal's head, that's the only thing I can think of. I've never eaten it and it's regarded as kinda gross. Now blood sausage, that can be tasty :)

Yes that's it, after some Googling it turns out that the word I had in mind is a regional word and the 'official' word is the literal translation into Dutch of 'head cheese'.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#569

Post by gwd »

tommit wrote: post #529
gwd wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you say "well but I buy my meat from my local butcher..." ok cool. Most people still don't, and won't, and that's the real issue. Right, but this goes back to my first paragraph. I would argue that most people do not have the moral effort to entirely give up meat voluntarily. There is some subset of people who are willing to make inconvenient life choices out of consideration of the lives of animals. You can…

That was a wild ride. > The more people you convince to become vegans, the fewer people are buying "ethical" animal products. Ok, good. In my mind, it goes no killing > ethical killing > unethical killing. I would try to maximize the amount in the no killing camp. I think I know what you're getting at overall, but I feel like this is in very speculative territory. I doubt that more people going vegan actually increas…

> And I will go one step further and say that this short story has not convinced me that the other Is this based on your own experience with pasture-raised farm animals, or reading in your own feelings into it?

My great aunt raised sheep for a while, and I spent a couple of summers as a farmhand. From what I can tell, those sheep lived reasonably happy sheep lives. Ewes had babies that grew up with them in the flock. They all hung out together in a big flock; they were rotated around a number of different fields on a regular basis, fed hay and other feed as supplements, given a shelter to stay and regular medical care. The rams were kept separate from the ewes most of the time so that births happened in a predictable fashion; but other than that, the sheep were given what sheep need.

Where I live now I'm a short drive from free-range cows and chickens too; the cows seem about as happy wandering round fields eating grass as the sheep did.

I've certainly seen depictions of factory farming that make me sick; I'd be happy to have those kinds of practices banned. But I don't see what my great aunt did as unethical at all: if anything, I think the lives of those sheep did have value, and the world was a better place because of their little sheepy lives than it would have been entirely without them.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#570

Post by goodoldneon »

ipaddr wrote: post #170

I'm generally surprised no one brings up the negative health benefits of processed foods. It is not healthier to get rid of meat only to replace it with high salt chemically processed food that tastes like meat. It seems like we are going backwards. You know what uses less greenhouse emissions, less water and less land? The orginal plant based food that gets processed into a beyond burger. If you really care about th…

About once a month I have a huge craving for a burger, so I’ll eat a Beyond burger. It’s worse than eating veggies but it helps keep me vegetarian. Without it, I’d probably eat a real burger to satiate my meat craving. Since I’m an all-or-nothing person (major personality flaw), eating meat once a month would turn into a slippery slope. Beyond meat helps to keep me on the vegetarian straight and narrow
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