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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#321
post #285

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> This is not an argument that fairs well on HN in general, but the fact that we can eat something this similar to a burger but without the slaughter of living, feeling, individual being is so unbelievably important and incredible. When I was about fifteen it occurred to me that while that's true, those animals wouldn't be alive at all without us raising them for food. So it seems to me that the goal should be raisin…

Mass scale pain and torture of food animals, the extraordinarily high rates of psychological injury which slaughterhouse workers experience...

Most vegetarianism is not about that animals are killed, it is a protest against the way in which the entire industry functions.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#322

The local burger joint closest to my house is 100% vegan and uses Beyond patties. It’s also, in my opinion, the best burger in town. I’m a carnivore and would definitely notice the difference in a Pepsi challenge of the patties themselves, but the overall taste and presentation make this place pull ahead of all the meat-based alternatives. I feel like we’ve crossed a threshold. This was literal sci-fi just a couple o…

What’s the name of the place?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get it either, as someone who is not a strict vegetarian but also doesn’t eat a lot of meat. For someone that really loves meat, they are going to be supremely disappointed by that product. Similarly, I think most vegetarians would be be disappointed by that product. (I greatly prefer traditional veggie burgers.) It fits a weird market niche. I think most people that buy it would be better served with really…

I'm a vegetarian that eats the fake meat and I'm glad it exists even if it's not perfect. I love hamburgers and for me, it's the biggest loss after becoming a vegetarian. Impossible is the closest I can get to recreating that experience. I switched to vegetarian because of the animal suffering/morality angle. I have for a long time felt that it was the right thing to do, but I liked eating meat so it was hard for me…

I will go vegetarian for months at a time but the challenge I have isn’t meat per se but that most vegetarian cooking has a strong bias toward sweet/sour/starchy kinds of flavor profiles, which I dislike. As in, for example, I literally never eat fruit because I’ve don’t like the flavor. I can see how the Impossible Burger is an alternative to that but it isn’t the only solution. It did take me years to collect and develop enough recipes that are highly satisfying that don’t have that character though, so it does offer a default.

While I strongly agree with the angle of minimizing animal suffering, I am also pragmatic because I grew up in very rural agricultural communities. All large-scale agricultural kills loads of animals, that is the nature of the thing. When you buy plant products that carnage is merely less obvious and a bit more wasteful (the animals that die usually aren’t eaten by people). Feeding 8 billion people and animals dying go hand-in-hand, even when everyone is vegetarian.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#324
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious - what's an example of such an exotic combo?

From some local fine foods places: chicken/sage/onion, chicken/spinach/pinenuts, duck/veal, lamb/feta, pork/capsicum, pork/fennel, lamb/beef/garlic/rosemary, beef/shiraz, pork/lemongrass/coriander, lamb/sundried-tomato, duck/orange/pistachio. Had some with pinot noir grapes in them once at a grape picking brunch event. Some of these like pork/fennel or lamb/rosemary, spiced Italian, etc are pretty commonly found for…

Wow! Way more awesome variety than I expected

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoy both BeyondBeef and Impossible Burger. My thoughts are that BeyondBeef has a kind of plastic-y smell, but is almost exactly right in terms of color and texture. The smell is not concerning to me, but it is distinct for my palette. I still eat it, and don't mind. Aside from the burgers, I also really enjoy the spicy Italian sausages. There is a slightly different taste than pork-based sausages, but I wo…

As a vegetarian, I really don't get why people are so focused on realistic meat replacement. Like, there are other things to eat. I especially don't get why people want the texture of red meat like beef patties. So you like... soft food? There's no arguing tastes, it's just weird to me that that's what other vegetarians would care about.

People are vegetarian for a number of reasons. Personally, I really enjoy the taste (which includes the mouthfeel!) of meat, but I'm vegetarian for a number of reasons and have been for 13 years now. I don't think I'd want to go back to eating a meat/fish/etc. every day even if it were possible to do so in an entirely vegetarian manner, but having another thing that I enjoy eating sometimes is nice.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#326

The local burger joint closest to my house is 100% vegan and uses Beyond patties. It’s also, in my opinion, the best burger in town. I’m a carnivore and would definitely notice the difference in a Pepsi challenge of the patties themselves, but the overall taste and presentation make this place pull ahead of all the meat-based alternatives. I feel like we’ve crossed a threshold. This was literal sci-fi just a couple o…

I made a conscious effort to develop some vegetarian dishes I could make simply for variety. If nothing else, vegetarian cooking has to do a lot of work to make up for not just leaning on meat as a primary flavor component, but the result is you can get much more diversity and interesting flavors and textures.

It's honestly more exciting to see where we're going to do once we're at "seamless replica" and can start playing with the capability to make brand new things.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#327

The local burger joint closest to my house is 100% vegan and uses Beyond patties. It’s also, in my opinion, the best burger in town. I’m a carnivore and would definitely notice the difference in a Pepsi challenge of the patties themselves, but the overall taste and presentation make this place pull ahead of all the meat-based alternatives. I feel like we’ve crossed a threshold. This was literal sci-fi just a couple o…

What’s the name of the place?

Bun2Bun in Helsinki, Finland

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoy both BeyondBeef and Impossible Burger. My thoughts are that BeyondBeef has a kind of plastic-y smell, but is almost exactly right in terms of color and texture. The smell is not concerning to me, but it is distinct for my palette. I still eat it, and don't mind. Aside from the burgers, I also really enjoy the spicy Italian sausages. There is a slightly different taste than pork-based sausages, but I wo…

As a vegetarian, I really don't get why people are so focused on realistic meat replacement. Like, there are other things to eat. I especially don't get why people want the texture of red meat like beef patties. So you like... soft food? There's no arguing tastes, it's just weird to me that that's what other vegetarians would care about.

It’s simple - we like eating what we grew up eating. For me, those are the dishes and ingredients my mom made, the restaurants near home made when I was a kid etc. Nostalgia/memory is an important component of taste because I figure it’s evolution’s way of saying “you ate this and didn’t die. Eat some more!”

I’ve never eaten a beef burger. I tried an Impossible Burger. It just tasted ... I don’t know. Not meh, not great, not bad. Just different. I’d eat it again if someone offered but I wouldn’t seek it out.

But I totally get why people who’ve had 1-2 beef burgers their whole lives love that taste. I’m the same way with a good cheese omelette or a paneer dish.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is they require no violence against animals. And you wonder why people can't take absolutists seriously. The marketing power of the moral superiority concept is no new thing. Pivoting the crux of success of your ideology around an incredibly poor burger filling makes no sense either. In the UK restaurants are being allowed to reopen in 10 days. In London there are an incredible density of steak restaurants which ha…

The person you're replying to has a different opinion from yours and you seem very offended by it. It hasn't got anything to do with lockdown in London, how booked steak restaurants will be there, or how much the "emotionally intelligent people" cringe. This all feels like non sequitur or ad hominem. I eat meat with no plans to stop and I don't have a problem with the comment you're replying to.

I'm not offended. I'm examining why their transparent attempt at emotional and moral manipulation is how they are approaching this issue. It's pathetic.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#330

I am an avid meat-lover but it does play on my conscience that I am in fact eating a former sentient being and potentially contributing to environmental devastation. I would appreciate answers to the following two, albeit simplistic questions that always plaque me when I consider stopping eating meat products: 1) Is it really unethical to eat animals when the natural trajectory of most animals lives was likely to be…

> Is it really unethical to eat animals when the natural trajectory of most animals lives was likely to be eaten by other animals or die some horrendous death

The vast majority of meat that we produce isn't sparing animals that would have died anyway, it's not from hunting. We bring animals into existence (lots and lots of them, more than would naturally exist) for the sole purpose of killing them. Whether or not that distinction resonates with you morally -- different people have different reactions to that. But for me, it feels tangibly different.

I also think about it from an individual perspective instead of a societal perspective. I stopped thinking about a binary "is it ever wrong to eat meat in any situation" question, and the question I started asking instead was "do I need to?" The answer to that question doesn't change just because of what the food chain is, or what animals would do to me if they got the chance, or what tigers do in the wild, or whether deer like being eaten by wolves. Those systems might exist, but do I need to be a part of them?

Nearly all life on earth exploits other life to live. Humans aren't an exception to that, I'm not an exception to that. But if I can reduce my level of exploitation at little cost to me, then I want to. I don't buy that I would be killing animals as an act of charity, I know myself too well. For me personally, I can't pretend that I was eating chicken because I cared about the animals.

> Isn't it better for an animal to live its best life on a free range farm being grass fed, then get quickly and humanely slaughtered?

I don't think this is a scalable model for food production. My personal experience has been that choosing to eat only ethically sourced meat is more expensive and more difficult than going vegetarian. And I am doubtful even in a perfect world that free range farms with humane slaughterhouses would be capable of providing the amount of meat that people want to eat today. I think in order for that to happen, at the very least a lot of other people would need to go vegetarian or significantly reduce their meat intake.

What you're asking is a complicated question, and different people have different answers to it, and even saying something like "killing animals is unethical" is itself a really broad answer that means different things to different people. But I feel reasonably confident today saying that inhumane treatment of animals is built into the agriculture industry at a very fundamental level, and I sort of think it's naive to say that's going to change. I see more people becoming vegetarian at a faster rate than I see people opting to find a local farmer that can supply them with local free range beef. And as uncomfortable as it might be to say, most of the meat you see in a store came from animals that led horrible lives before they were butchered in horrible ways.

So on some level, I feel like the underlying ethical question of "do animals exist for food" is kind of besides the point, because even if they do exist for food, I don't see any evidence that we can keep meat production going at the same rate and at the same cost without being cruel to animals. I see a lot of people who want to believe that we can do free-range happy cows, but... everything I know about economy of scale contradicts that idea.

> If I made a personal decision to stop eating meat, would there be any significant impact at all on the overall environment realistically?

Maybe people can debate this, I can't say with certainty that insulating your house really well or reducing driving wouldn't be comparable in some cases. But most information I have seen suggests to me that for most people, eliminating meat (or even just reducing it) is one of the single highest-impact actions any individual can take for their own lives. So if you are looking for ways to reduce your personal environmental impact, then yes, reducing (or eliminating) meat does help at least as much as anything else you can do.

But, let's get to the rest of your question:

> However, the reality is that me (not) eating a bowl of sashimi once a week makes no difference in the context of, say, countries like Japan slaughtering millions of fish daily

Correct, but here's the thing. Literally nothing that you do to reduce your own individual emissions is ever going to be significant next to the impact of industry and government. You sort your plastic, great. The impact of doing that is negligible compared to a single bill that regulates how water bottles are made.

What makes vegetarianism promising is that there is genuinely a social shift happening on a wider scale than just with individuals, and that social shift has impact on industries. The biggest environmental impact of vegetarianism is when enough people shift that the meat industry overall starts to pivot or produce less meat, or where enough political pressure builds up that meat subsidies start to go away. The other thing that makes vegetarianism promising is that the more demand there is for meat substitutes, the cheaper those products become and the more resources are devoted into developing better products.

We saw a similar thing happen with green energy. Individual choices meant very little compared to the amount of energy that industries used. But at some point, green energy got cheap, and demand got higher, and companies started getting into it as well.

So I am cautious about telling people that what they do doesn't matter, because a lot of this stuff only changes when a certain threshold of people start getting involved or putting pressure on politicians to make changes. I don't want to pretend that reducing your own emissions is going to save the world, but I also disagree with the fatalism that says that individual choices don't matter.

I don't know if vegetarianism has enough momentum to significantly reduce meat demand, but it might. And when I look at the alternatives, I don't think there's any chance at all that the ethical meat movement has enough momentum to change anything, so throwing weight behind the vegetarians is about as good a plan as anything else. Beyond Burgers might get cheaper than normal burgers at some point, and that could drive a large change in how restaurants source food and how normal people buy food. If enough people stop buying fish, commercial fishing might go down because of a loss of profits. But there is basically zero chance that free-range chicken eggs will ever be cheaper than caged eggs, or that fisheries are suddenly going to become sustainable out of the goodness of their own hearts.

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