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Why People Feel Like Victims

nautil.us

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Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#151

Post by systemvoltage »

shirakawasuna wrote: post #128
pasabagi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a moral or a factual statement? I guess I'd reject the whole victim/perpetrator dichotomy and say that people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. Lots of people and societies find this very uncomfortable - we generally like the cosmos to be largely about us, down to our decisions, both for the better and for the worse.

To be honest, this comment section is full of blanket dismissals that speak to living in a bubble away from people with very real grievances. I would say it is not particularly philosophical or moral or factual - it is a reflection of personal material status.

I feel like most comments here reflect actual reality. Middle class of America is incredibly privileged. I feel like vocal minorities took over the media circles and got amplified disproportionately, especially after the pandemic hit and the only way to get information was through these narrow channels.

If possible, go out. Talk to people. It's quite refreshing how different the world is outside of the media machine.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#152

Post by anigbrowl »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #49
mhoad wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: do you think that was some great thing that we should continue doing?

Teaching that words can't do you permanent harm, yes. How you feel when being called a name, or having someone say something hurtful may not be a choice. But whether you dwell on it, whether you choose to continue to feel hurt, whether you choose to act in revenge... all of those things are within one's control. We absolutely should teach self-control and mastery of one's emotions to children. It helps them become sa…

Why is it so much the problem of the person being targeted though? The approach you describe seems not to address the behavior of the aggressors at all.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#154

Post by f00zz »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #117
BalinKing wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your argument, because I'd consider making $200K/yr to be firmly on the side of wealthy. Also, I think he was talking about the circumstances being unremarkable, not the people themselves. (Minor note, since you brought it up: it's spelled "Caltech".)

Id wager if you asked most of your graduating classmates if $200k@25 is impressive, most or all would say no. That’s a new grad’s total compensation and I’m several years in already. Appreciate the correction on spelling. I’m more a Midwest guy myself.

You should negotiate working remotely and move out of the US, with that kind of income you could live like a king in most of the rest of the planet. I'm not even being snarky

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#155

Post by DoreenMichele »

rednerrus wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #30

> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age. As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology. Growing up as one…

Same thing but I have girls. I don't want them growing up with the locus of control outside of themselves. The studies are convincing that that is the worst thing you can for a child.

I'm a woman and in some sense I had sort of a sheltered childhood. I was one of the top students in my graduating high school class and I had a lot of firsthand experience with being taken seriously, having my opinions respected and feeling just as entitled as anyone else to speak my mind, etc.

And then I became an adult and life did not go how I thought it would and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what went wrong.

I will suggest that it can be counterproductive to try to hide the ugly truth from children that the world is often not a nice place, that there are prejudiced people and who you are can impact how other people react to you, among other things. I have been slow to take off my rose-colored glasses and get better at handling bad actors in a more tactical fashion.

Girls tend to be taught to worry about the feelings of other people more than their own and to conform to social expectations and to cave to social pressure. Trying to live up to high ideals about all people deserving to be treated well while I was not being treated well by them was something of an Achilles Heel for me.

That seems to generalize. I seem to not be the only woman who keeps trying to find some high road long after it's become obvious that the person in question is simply abusive and taking advantage.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#156

Post by anigbrowl »

WalterBright wrote: post #53
Kye wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do everything right, then one day a cop decides you were reaching for a gun instead of a wallet. Yes, choices matter, but sometimes the choices of others limit your own.

I've been pulled over many times. Here's what I do: 1. put my hands on the wheel in plain sight and keep them there 2. when the cop says "driver's license" I say "it's in my wallet in my right front pocket. I do not move. 3. cop says "ok, you can get your wallet". 4. I use one hand to get my wallet and the license. 5. cop says "registration" 6. I say "it's in the glove box" and I do not move. 7. cop says "ok you can…

Really living the dream there Walter.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#157

Post by burade »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

This is a good time to recommend some supplementary reading: The Coddling of the American Mind[1], a book that does a great job of outlining what has changed in the last 30 years and why there is very much a generational gap at play with how people perceive themselves. It turns out, raising kids in an environment of "safetyism" where nothing ever goes wrong makes full-grown adults really unresilient, and more prone t…

These types of books are made to sell, bro, not to be completely truthful.

You got duped.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#158

Post by aaron5 »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's popular to be a victim these days. Much more popular than I recall it being earlier in my lifetime. It even goes so far as to regard people who aren't victims with contempt.

I was recently reading Nietzsche and I'm sorry I won't quote him correctly, but he said something like this: that the weak would use their weakness as an insidious power, to control, to manipulate, to coerce, to bully; it was all just a deep down ploy to exert their tyranny on those stronger. I found it fascinating.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#159

Post by magicalist »

roflc0ptic wrote: post #133
didibus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's learned by going through trauma or PTSD enduring experiences. That's what the empirical data showed. It is not learned by simple teaching and seeing others attitudes, that bit was a non proven hypothesis that the interviewee said they think cultural differences might have an effect, but their experimentation were only done in Israel. So when you hear "learned behavior" don't think as in this is what my parents t…

You're overgeneralizing. The data showed that it can be learned through trauma or PTSD experiences, but to claim "It is not learned by simple teaching and seeing others attitudes" is not defensible. Based on the researcher's comments about kindergarteners, they seem to think it can be learned through simple teaching.

> Based on the researcher's comments about kindergarteners, they seem to think...

In this situation, one thing is supported by data, the other is inferred from what you think the researcher thinks.

Generally this forum looks down more on "they're indoctrinating our children with X!" claims without some actual data.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#160

Post by breakyerself »

fallingknife wrote: post #137
breakyerself wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can debate all day long about the merits of explaining systemic racism to young black kids vs keeping them ignorant about it. However the people ignoring the facts are the ones who deny systemic racism exists. It may be better for children of color to be ignorant about it, but certainly not adults of any racial background.

True. I don't see how you can possibly deny the existence of systemic racism in a country where all the top educational institutions actively discriminate against asians.

Yeah that seems to be a problem.
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