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Politics and the English Language (1946)

orwellfoundation.com

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Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#11

Post by neither_color »

al_ak wrote: post #9

Orwell's Lie: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=992

provides no evidence that earlier times had been perennially populated by paragons of literary virtue

That's an astounding alliteration, but I always took from Orwell's essay that this was intended for public communicators like politicians(hence the title), and not literatis. A few years back when I was trying to figure out why someone who seemingly spoke like a fifth grader on purpose had such a tremendous appeal in his run for president, I thought of Politics and the English Language. Sure enough, using very simple language(my favorite was probably "super duper missile"), he could get the attention and support of people who would otherwise never find the motivation to vote.

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#12

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I also often wonder how things like GMail sentence/phrase autocomplete will affect overall societal phrasing in the future.

I mean, I love this feature, and when I'm writing an email trying to find a mutually agreeable time and place for a meeting I don't want to think that hard about how to phrase it. But over time it feels like that part of my brain that can think of more interesting phrasing will atrophy.

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#13

Post by imbnwa »

abalaji wrote: post #4

I especially like how Orwell draws a contrived but all too true comparison between the following passages. I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. -- passage from Ecclesiastes vs. Objective considerations of contemp…

The latter I think is also what Taleb was referring to when, in the context of criticizing IQ, he remarked that most of Europe was a backwater for most of history

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#14

Post by strken »

bigbillheck wrote: post #6

How is this not just another 'thus of ould, thus now' ( https://wellcomecollection.org/images?query=j8c3mm3x / https://fineartamerica.com/featured/2-womens-rights-1915-gra... ) rant?

It gives specific examples of ugly and beautiful writing, and tells you how to avoid ugliness yourself. The examples are drawn from real writing, not cheap ad hominem cartoons.

It may be a rant, but not just a rant.

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#15

Post by picometer »

I originally read this essay in high school english but still think of it frequently. These ideas are foundational for critical thinking; it's a way to cut through BS and see things more clearly.

But it should come with few small warnings:

- When following these heuristics, I second guess everything I write, which makes it take longer. That's not bad, per se; it's like a whetstone to sharpen your mind. (Case in point: is that an overused simile?? Don't think so, but I had to think about it.) It's a tradeoff to be aware of.

- Obeying rule V (in particular "never use jargon") can lead to disappointment, because jargon is involved in humans forming knowledge-based groups. If you're trying to attract the attention of someone with expertise and you choose to use a common word in place of jargon, they're less likely to tune in.

- I spend waaaay too much time on https://www.powerthesaurus.org

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#16

Post by dang »

Some past threads:

Politics and the English Language (George Orwell, 1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24828499 - Oct 2020 (1 comment)

George Orwell on Writing and the 4 Questions Great Writers Must Ask Themselves - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21712057 - Dec 2019 (1 comment)

George Orwell – Politics and the English Language (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13538496 - Feb 2017 (21 comments)

George Orwell: Politics and the English Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12327324 - Aug 2016 (1 comment)

George Orwell, “Politics and the English Language” (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12271030 - Aug 2016 (150 comments)

George Orwell, “Politics and the English Language” (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10452900 - Oct 2015 (2 comments)

George Orwell: Politics and the English Language (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6643231 - Oct 2013 (62 comments)

“Politics and the English Language,” By George Orwell - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6277405 - Aug 2013 (2 comments)

Politics and the English Language [1945] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3752825 - March 2012 (13 comments)

George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language" 1946 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2079477 - Jan 2011 (1 comment)

George Orwell - Politics and the English Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=997940 - Dec 2009 (14 comments)

Orwell: Politics and the English Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=636287 - June 2009 (14 comments)

Orwell Essay: Politics And The English Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=272211 - Aug 2008 (11 comments)

Politics and the English Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=115519 - Feb 2008 (5 comments)

Orwell has many brilliant essays—the others deserve attention too, but I suppose it's a winner-take-all market.

The clarity of his writing is so hard to beat that I'm not sure a clearer writer exists.

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#18

Post by thazework »

abalaji wrote: post #4

I especially like how Orwell draws a contrived but all too true comparison between the following passages. I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. -- passage from Ecclesiastes vs. Objective considerations of contemp…

The passage from Ecclesiastes is itself a translation of course, and though it is a very old translation it's not particularly good.

'I returned and saw under the sun' - where exactly is the speaker supposed to have returned from?

What is being conveyed, poorly, is that the speaker is having a moment of clarity.

https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3109.htm

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#19

Post by thazework »

The politics alluded to in the title involve obfuscating the nasty things done by governments through bureaucratic, convoluted or academic language.

Some of the most effective propagande is very clear and direct. Emerging forms of mass communication - from the radio to twitter - lend themselves particularly well to such lies.

Unfortunately the belief that power desires to mask itself (out of shame?) sometimes proves naïve.

Re: Politics and the English Language (1946)

#20

Post by [deleted] »

thazework wrote: post #18
abalaji wrote: post #4

I especially like how Orwell draws a contrived but all too true comparison between the following passages. I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. -- passage from Ecclesiastes vs. Objective considerations of contemp…

The passage from Ecclesiastes is itself a translation of course, and though it is a very old translation it's not particularly good. 'I returned and saw under the sun' - where exactly is the speaker supposed to have returned from? What is being conveyed, poorly, is that the speaker is having a moment of clarity. https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3109.htm

[deleted]
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