Why People Feel Like Victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#11

Post by bmmayer1 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

This is a good time to recommend some supplementary reading: The Coddling of the American Mind[1], a book that does a great job of outlining what has changed in the last 30 years and why there is very much a generational gap at play with how people perceive themselves. It turns out, raising kids in an environment of "safetyism" where nothing ever goes wrong makes full-grown adults really unresilient, and more prone to thinking of themselves as victims.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Gen...

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#12

Post by kevingadd » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

I certainly hope you're joking

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#13

Post by gelert » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

An interesting article, though note the easy conflation of Jewishness with Israelis. Being Jewish ≠ being Israeli and for many people they are quite distinct identities. Indeed, Israeli identity can be quite anti victimhood.

While I would hesitate to call the conflation anti-semitic it is at minimum quite misleading - and also a gross overgeneralisation of Jewish identity.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#14

Post by WalterBright » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #10

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

Is this a moral or a factual statement? I guess I'd reject the whole victim/perpetrator dichotomy and say that people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. Lots of people and societies find this very uncomfortable - we generally like the cosmos to be largely about us, down to our decisions, both for the better and for the worse.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement.

It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices.

I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercising. Improving my diet. Trying to eliminate unproductive behaviors. Etc.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#15

Post by WalterBright » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #12

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

I certainly hope you're joking

Nope. Not remotely.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#16

Post by baleeeeeeve » Thu, May 06, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #14

pasabagi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a moral or a factual statement? I guess I'd reject the whole victim/perpetrator dichotomy and say that people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. Lots of people and societies find this very uncomfortable - we generally like the cosmos to be largely about us, down to our decisions, both for the better and for the worse.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists.

Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#17

Post by zwieback » Thu, May 06, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

This is a good time to recommend some supplementary reading: The Coddling of the American Mind[1], a book that does a great job of outlining what has changed in the last 30 years and why there is very much a generational gap at play with how people perceive themselves. It turns out, raising kids in an environment of "safetyism" where nothing ever goes wrong makes full-grown adults really unresilient, and more prone t…

I really like their original The Atlantic article of the same name (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-cod...) but was disappointed by the book, too much repetition and filler material.

Still worth a look, though, and the situation has not gotten better in the last 5 years.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#18

Post by WalterBright » Thu, May 06, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

The trouble with being a victim is there's nothing to be done about it. Deciding to not being a victim is empowering, as it means you can do something about it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#19

Post by wott » Thu, May 06, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #12

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

I certainly hope you're joking

No, outside of programming subjects, he often emits statements along that line.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#20

Post by whydoibother » Thu, May 06, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #14

pasabagi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a moral or a factual statement? I guess I'd reject the whole victim/perpetrator dichotomy and say that people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. Lots of people and societies find this very uncomfortable - we generally like the cosmos to be largely about us, down to our decisions, both for the better and for the worse.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

What about people who suffer trauma, childhood or otherwise, due to the decisions of others? Saying people's lives are strictly in their control is just not true.