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Starting a crypto project

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Re: Starting a crypto project

#151

Post by croshan »

Far_Pig wrote: post #115
noxer wrote: post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

I suspect in the not-so-distant future, every company will have their own token, much like they have their own domain/website today.

And why would a company need to have a decentralized token?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#152

Post by reedjosh »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #145
reedjosh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only downside is you can't inflate the supply for unique purposes. For example PeakD.com inflates hive to give content creators tips based on likes. Edit: I thought this was legitimate reasoning behind having your own token. I don't mean it in an inflammatory way. Please explain why you disagree.

> Edit: I thought this was legitimate reasoning behind having your own token. I don't mean it in an inflammatory way. Please explain why you disagree. Because you don't need to create a token at all to tip creators, inflationary or otherwise. If you want to use crypto, just use an existing blockchain. Or don't use crypto and just create a centralized market that pays out at certain thresholds. Blockchain solutions ar…

> Because you don't need to create a token at all to tip creators, inflationary or otherwise.

But if you don't do it through inflationary means, then consumers have to actually send tips and or have accounts. (for better or worse)

Inflation is a nice way to build incentives into the currency's structure. Further, Hive has no transaction fees as that's funded via inflation as well.

I do like the idea of a streaming value for value service wherein I have a wallet that I top up from time to time, but there are many models that are viable here.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#153

Post by PragmaticPulp »

onebot wrote: post #83

Having been part of launching Helium HNT token (which is honestly a real-world utility use case), here is my personal experience related to his points... Helium started as a traditional centralized IoT project, realized that centralization was a limiting factor, then joked about turning it into a blockchain application. Now it is over $1.5bn market cap and provides a real-world utility. Exchanges are pay-to-play. It…

> Helium started as a traditional centralized IoT project, realized that centralization was a limiting factor, then joked about turning it into a blockchain application. Now it is over $1.5bn market cap and provides a real-world utility.

Why did you need to create a new, unique token anyway?

How much of that market cap would you estimate is used for utility versus simply being held for speculation?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#154

Post by graeme »

sendbitcoins wrote: post #40
aabhay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Nassim Taleb calls it an “open ponzi” — a ponzi that is openly known

Nassim could argue that its a "greater fool machine", but its literally not a ponzi.

What’s the distinction, and do you have a source formalizing that?

I had always understood a ponzi as being something paid out by later investors, and where you had a plausible reason to believe in increase in value.

Here the plausible reason is “bitcoin will take over the financial system and everyone will need it” or “bitcoin will be the new store of value and everyone will want it”. In either event payout necessarily comes from later investors.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#155

Post by pinkybanana »

pjc50 wrote: post #99
noxer wrote: post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

> You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value Other way round: transferring value to yourself is the only use case . If you take a second to look in the mirror and see the wreckage of previous startups in this space, you'll see that - as pointed out in the OP thread - 99% of the community is there for the pump and dump. For all the practical purposes, distributed…

> > You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value

> Other way round: transferring value to yourself is the only use case.

Everyone needs money. These tho claims are contradictory. If by creating tokens you can transfer value to yourself, it is clear use case and thats why people will keep creating tokens.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#156

Post by noxer »

mtalantikite wrote: post #139
noxer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post above has a list of companies who build on top of such a decentral permission-less system that apparently has no benefits. Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. It must be p2p and there must be a ledger to "settle the transactio…

> Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. I’m sorry, what? Genuinely curious about what the use case is here, I’ve never heard of this before. I pay based on the amount of time I consume?

Currently Coil costs you 5 bucks a month and its distributed to the content creators that you consume on the basis of how long you consume them. The Creator must have a web monetization enabled website [1] to participate. And you need either an add-on or a browser that has it integrated. The creator can show/hide content based on whether you stream money or not (kinda like a paywall)

Its obviously intentional very simplified ATM because its rather new. There is long way to go before we can actually pay for exactly what we consume.

[1] https://webmonetization.org/

Old (2018) but fun: A Raspberry Pi ILP power switch (Turns on a light if money is streamed) https://xrpcommunity.blog/raspberry-pi-interledger-xp-powers...

Re: Starting a crypto project

#157

Post by reedjosh »

noxer wrote: post #142
arcticbull wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post above has a list of companies who build on top of such a decentral permission-less system that apparently has no benefits. Correct. > Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. It must be p2p and there must be a ledger to "settle t…

>Any wallet could offer the same thing. No, its not a wallet at all its a protocol like TCP but for money. If you are interested go read about it first. There is no point in arguing about something you dont know what it is. >PayPal could offer it Yes, they could but its not lucrative and if it would be they would not be interested in using a public interoperable protocol where everyone can offer the same service and…

> People already pay to not see ads its just cumbersome because every service needs a subscription or pro app or whatever.

People will pay if it's a frictionless payment of a small amount reflective of the value gained. Netflix did this with movies, Spotify with music, `crypto with everything?` if the tech and business models are worked out.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#158

Post by reedjosh »

arcticbull wrote: post #118
noxer wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me as if you dont have any "blockchain project" ideas. That's fine do something else. If whatever you every wished to crate does not profit form this tech, it probably really just does not profit form it. Nothing wrong with that. It would be a shame to slap blockchain on a cool project that doesn't need it.

No it's not that, there's not a single blockchain based solution that achieves better results than a classical solution. Not a single one. Never has been. Not in 14 years. I'm open to one showing up! But, well, it hasn't. And that's because there's a huge fundamental cost to trustlessness, decentralization and permissionlessness that substantially no project actually benefits from.

> there's not a single blockchain based solution that achieves better results than a classical solution

The following

> trustlessness, decentralization and permissionlessness

Are better results.

But I do admit, that they come at _performance_ trade-offs.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#159

Post by munchbunny »

Luker88 wrote: post #91

As someone interested in all of cryptography, I cringe every single time when we call blockchain "crypto". Sure, there's cryptography in it. But you don't call a mail or http server "crypto". There's similar tech in git, we don't call it "crypto", we call it VCS. Calling this "crypto" is just trying to add a mystic aura for stuff people don't understand, to further muddy the waters. We have a word for this technology…

As someone who works on stuff that involves cryptography but not cryptocurrency, I agree, but at this point I consider it a lost cause. Cryptocurrencies have taken over so much of the popular imagination that even when I say "cryptography" I get responses like "oh you mean like Bitcoin?"

Re: Starting a crypto project

#160

Post by noxer »

megameter wrote: post #132
noxer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post above has a list of companies who build on top of such a decentral permission-less system that apparently has no benefits. Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. It must be p2p and there must be a ledger to "settle the transactio…

Exactly - a good use of a decentralized ledger doesn't leave so much room for speculative profit motives. However, my own investment thesis is that the "crypto" market is ultimately destined to march towards that useful and unprofitable outcome, kicking and screaming the whole way, by dint of the long-term market survivors being the civically oriented perennials. But this is a long journey, maybe another decade or tw…

The goal was to remove the middlemen to make stuff cheaper/unbiased/fair/private. The token prices going up an down is indeed just a side effete of speculation. but will definitely go away over time its not solving any problem and it hides the tech because people just see the money.
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