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Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

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Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#61

Post by me_me_me »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #50
_u1dn wrote: post #44

Space exploration seems difficult and delayed enough without this virtue signaling. Supporting disabilities would add a number of new challenges on top of the existing ones, and with marginal practical benefit (increasing the pool of potential astronauts by the small minority that have disabilities). Being an astronaut is a ridiculously selective process, it’s not like disabled people are missing out on something her…

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical…

My first gut reaction to this initiative is a bit negative. There are handful astronauts in the world for a reason. It is probably the most challenging environment where you need to be at your peak both mentally and physically.

I am all for inclusion but as article states only 550 people or so went into space. That's an insanely low number. For comparison world wide on average there are 3000 deaths due to car crashes A DAY. Everyday 6x time people die that went into space ever.

I hope this program will not push out people that are a safer option for an astronaut in favour of a PR stunt. And that we are not wasting money on enabling someone's apex dream.

I will never play in NBA no matter how hard I will study and train I am too short. Its life.

And I am not campaining to have a a single player per team below 5ft because life is unfair.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#62

Post by anthony_romeo »

me_me_me wrote: post #61
anthony_romeo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical…

My first gut reaction to this initiative is a bit negative. There are handful astronauts in the world for a reason. It is probably the most challenging environment where you need to be at your peak both mentally and physically. I am all for inclusion but as article states only 550 people or so went into space. That's an insanely low number. For comparison world wide on average there are 3000 deaths due to car crashes…

Lol, as if you or I can meaningfully tell the difference between a "PR Stunt" and a valid hire. If you see an astronaut with a prosthetic leg in the next five years, are you going to just automatically presume that they are unworthy of the position? I certainly wouldn't arbitrarily belittle an astronaut like that -- doing so would be shameful IMO.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#63

Post by anthony_romeo »

mzkply wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. That's the point. Some of the "best people we have" may have disabilities that don't affect their ability to work in space. Someone without legs might be more nimble in zero-G. (Hell, there's probably even a significant weight savings.)

What if there's a launch abort and they need to run out from the capsule? What if there's an in-flight abort and the capsule lands in Siberian wildlife? What if..............

What if someone loses their legs on the eventual Mars base? Are they just SOL until another 20 years of research to accommodate people without limbs?

There are an infinite number of what-if scenarios that can be cherry-picked to form an argument.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#64

Post by hirundo »

For an astronaut could having legs be a relative disability? It seems to me that ableism is a very good thing with respect to choosing astronauts, but different in micro- than in macro-gravity. A disabled earthling could make an unusually able spaceling.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#65

Post by anthony_romeo »

brotherofsteel wrote: post #48
gostsamo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm downvoting because you imply that having body abnormalities makes someone lower quality person. A disability should not be taken into account if it is not significant for the job (a rather personal bias).

That's not what I meant. I meant the best people _for the job_. I agree that candidates shouldn't be excluded because of disabilities that are irrelevant to the job of being an astronaut, but that's not why they're doing this. As the ESA spokesperson says, "it's in the principle of diversity and inclusiveness".

It might not be what you meant, but it's seems to be an underlying principle upon which your argument was based (if accidentally). Otherwise there is no reason to presume that an individual with a disability cannot be the best for the job (which you did).

Also, saying that an action is taken "in the principle of diversity and inclusiveness" does not imply that the decision was solely based on that, so that quote is meaningless to your argument.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#66

Post by gostsamo »

missedthecue wrote: post #59
gostsamo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm downvoting because you imply that having body abnormalities makes someone lower quality person. A disability should not be taken into account if it is not significant for the job (a rather personal bias).

Why is that worth a downvote? You disagree with his argument, but his comment is contributing to the discussion.

As I said, because it implies that people with disabilities cannot be the best fit for a job and their achievements are not as good as anybody else's but a wasteful charity that is yet another box in a compliance checklist.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#67

Post by missedthecue »

gostsamo wrote: post #66
missedthecue wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that worth a downvote? You disagree with his argument, but his comment is contributing to the discussion.

As I said, because it implies that people with disabilities cannot be the best fit for a job and their achievements are not as good as anybody else's but a wasteful charity that is yet another box in a compliance checklist.

Downvote isn't a "I don't agree with your logic" button.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#68

Post by dahfizz »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #60
_Microft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astronauts hook their feet under handles to stay in place while doing things on the I.S.S. They do this so extensively that they develop callus on top of their feet and loose it on their heels. Once back on Earth walking without hardened skin on the heels is said to be painful until they have re-developed it. Here is an account of astronaut Scott Kelly: https://www.businessinsider.com/scott-kelly-weirdest-thing-y...

That's interesting but doesn't sound like much of a prosthetic to add to the proposed legless astronaut corps(tm). Somebody must have studied this. Effect of G-forces on amputees, perhaps there's less in the way of nutrition and oxygen needs. For that matter, I wonder what tests have been done to find natural differences in resource depletion depending on the individual, that sounds like an obvious selection point fo…

Prosthetics might work for someone missing the lower portion of their leg(s), but I don't think it would work for someone with a congenital limb deficiency. If they have no control of their legs, bolting on some extra hardware wouldn't do much.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#69

Post by freshair »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #63
mzkply wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there's a launch abort and they need to run out from the capsule? What if there's an in-flight abort and the capsule lands in Siberian wildlife? What if..............

What if someone loses their legs on the eventual Mars base? Are they just SOL until another 20 years of research to accommodate people without limbs? There are an infinite number of what-if scenarios that can be cherry-picked to form an argument.

> What if someone loses their legs on the eventual Mars base? Are they just SOL

Realistically? Yeah, I think they'd die. Even if the Mars base had a trauma surgeon, which is a big 'if', would they really be equipped to handle something that severe? Would there even be enough medical staff to support a surgery that involved? If so, that's must be a very developed Mars base. If the Mars base has facilities more comparable to the ISS than an aircraft carrier, I think anybody in that situation would die.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#70

Post by [deleted] »

freshair wrote: post #69
anthony_romeo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone loses their legs on the eventual Mars base? Are they just SOL until another 20 years of research to accommodate people without limbs? There are an infinite number of what-if scenarios that can be cherry-picked to form an argument.

> What if someone loses their legs on the eventual Mars base? Are they just SOL Realistically? Yeah, I think they'd die. Even if the Mars base had a trauma surgeon, which is a big 'if', would they really be equipped to handle something that severe? Would there even be enough medical staff to support a surgery that involved? If so, that's must be a very developed Mars base. If the Mars base has facilities more compara…

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