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Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

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Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#41

Post by mzkply »

ceejayoz wrote: post #22
brotherofsteel wrote: post #8

Given how few people we can afford to send into space, is it too much to ask that we send the best people we have? Leave the identity politics back on Earth.

Sure. That's the point. Some of the "best people we have" may have disabilities that don't affect their ability to work in space. Someone without legs might be more nimble in zero-G. (Hell, there's probably even a significant weight savings.)

What if there's a launch abort and they need to run out from the capsule? What if there's an in-flight abort and the capsule lands in Siberian wildlife? What if..............

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#42

Post by caturopath »

brotherofsteel wrote: post #8

Given how few people we can afford to send into space, is it too much to ask that we send the best people we have? Leave the identity politics back on Earth.

Some of the best people we have have disabilities.

There are disabilities that would create real difficulties.

ESA identified a few that they seem to think won't create problems and made a really small tweak to their standards.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#43

Post by dahfizz »

ISL wrote: post #24
anthony_romeo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care for this sort of discrimination. What if the guy with no legs is also the best for the job? You're gonna exclude 'em "just because"?

In space, legs are not required. To get out of a gravity well, being light is good.

> In space, legs are not required.

Maybe not a hard requirement, but they are very useful. Scott Kelly talks about the hard callouses he had on his feet because you end up using your feet to navigate and hook yourself into place a lot.

https://www.businessinsider.com/scott-kelly-weirdest-thing-y...

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#44

Post by _u1dn »

Space exploration seems difficult and delayed enough without this virtue signaling. Supporting disabilities would add a number of new challenges on top of the existing ones, and with marginal practical benefit (increasing the pool of potential astronauts by the small minority that have disabilities).

Being an astronaut is a ridiculously selective process, it’s not like disabled people are missing out on something here that’s accessible to any non-disabled person. The opportunity for someone to get into space, whether disabled or not, is almost nil regardless.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#45

Post by ceejayoz »

black6 wrote: post #38
ISL wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In space, legs are not required. To get out of a gravity well, being light is good.

Leaving the spacecraft on the ground due to an emergency might require the escapee to be fully ambulatory, though.

You can lack legs and be fully ambulatory. (And murdery, but that's beside the point here.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#46

Post by ceejayoz »

mzkply wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. That's the point. Some of the "best people we have" may have disabilities that don't affect their ability to work in space. Someone without legs might be more nimble in zero-G. (Hell, there's probably even a significant weight savings.)

What if there's a launch abort and they need to run out from the capsule? What if there's an in-flight abort and the capsule lands in Siberian wildlife? What if..............

Are you under the impression people without legs just sit around hoping someone will give them a piggyback ride?

Oscar Pistorius qualified for the 2012 Summer Olympics without any.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#47

Post by UnpossibleJim »

freshair wrote: post #26
mattnewton wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem occurs when someone thinks they can determine “best” from traits that probably don’t actually matter in space, like being shorter than average or having uneven legs. I found the movie Gattaca to be a surprisingly good argument for this position despite being fiction and entertainment first and foremost.

> The problem occurs when someone thinks they can determine “best” from traits that probably don’t actually matter in space, like being shorter than average You got me curious so I looked it up. NASA requires that astronauts be at least 62 inches (5'2", aka 1.57 meters.) So they already permit astronauts to be substantially shorter than average. They wouldn't take people with dwarfism I guess, or people without legs.…

A large part of non-personalized EVA suits is, when an emergency vacuum release occurs you wouldn't want astronauts (cosmonauts, if you prefer) looking for their personalized EVA suit. Seconds matter. I have a disability and would love to go into space, but understand the necessity for uniformity in EVA suits. I'm not trying to be the bad guy, but many of the well articulated amputation prosthesis might risk a suit puncture, the stresses on the body could cause high/low blood sugars when a person is unable to get to medicine or food to regulate their blood sugars, epilepsy is a non-starter, eye sight might be a pass with surgery (though I saw a pilot talking about that above), I saw someone arguing for paralyzed astronauts which was an argument that was beyond me (sorry) - I just don't think we're there yet. If we were at the level of a space elevator, then I think this would be a fantastic plan, and I would be the first in line! But as a disabled person, this seems to put inclusion and politic in front of safety protocol. They aren't just choosing astronauts based on physical performance, these are also startling smart individuals who have worked hard and I don't think that should be forgotten. The vast majority of them are science nerds, not jocks.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#48

Post by brotherofsteel »

gostsamo wrote: post #13
brotherofsteel wrote: post #8

Given how few people we can afford to send into space, is it too much to ask that we send the best people we have? Leave the identity politics back on Earth.

I'm downvoting because you imply that having body abnormalities makes someone lower quality person. A disability should not be taken into account if it is not significant for the job (a rather personal bias).

That's not what I meant. I meant the best people _for the job_. I agree that candidates shouldn't be excluded because of disabilities that are irrelevant to the job of being an astronaut, but that's not why they're doing this. As the ESA spokesperson says, "it's in the principle of diversity and inclusiveness".

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#49

Post by mzkply »

ceejayoz wrote: post #46
mzkply wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there's a launch abort and they need to run out from the capsule? What if there's an in-flight abort and the capsule lands in Siberian wildlife? What if..............

Are you under the impression people without legs just sit around hoping someone will give them a piggyback ride? Oscar Pistorius qualified for the 2012 Summer Olympics without any.

I'm frankly not sure how this is relevant to a survival scenario where people may or may not be injured.

Anyway, the entire ISS is built around astronauts using their feet as anchors, allowing them to use their hands for work. Without legs, you wouldn't be able to do maintain your position while working in 0g, hence the challenges of spacewalking. There's plenty of videos where astros show how the top of their feet become calloused as they use them to lock in their bodies to the structure.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#50

Post by anthony_romeo »

_u1dn wrote: post #44

Space exploration seems difficult and delayed enough without this virtue signaling. Supporting disabilities would add a number of new challenges on top of the existing ones, and with marginal practical benefit (increasing the pool of potential astronauts by the small minority that have disabilities). Being an astronaut is a ridiculously selective process, it’s not like disabled people are missing out on something her…

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical benefit, but I can't quite understand why you believe that merely increasing the pool of applicants is a bad idea [and the European Space Agency seems to disagree with you as well]. I'm curious on the specifics of your interpretation.

It might be a "ridiculously selective process," but the specific restrictions within that process are, to some degree, arbitrary. They're certainly worth reconsidering and expanding from time-to-time as technology/safety improves, especially since we're getting closer to an age of commercial space flight where people with disabilities will have more access to space flight regardless of what any specific space agency will do.

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