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Why I Work on Ads

jefftk.com

271–280 of 882 posts

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#271

I'm always surprised that someone would go through the trouble of justifying their involvement in something prima facie unethical -- in writing, no less -- and fail to address the actual ethical issue. As other have noted in comments, the problem is not with advertising in general, but with the specific way in which Google advertises. I have a hard time believing the author is unaware of this, so I'm left wondering:…

> the problem is not with advertising in general I disagree. Advertising is intrusive and designed to convince you to do things you wouldn't normally do. It's large scale psychological manipulation that's only considered ethical because we've been doing it for so long.

A sign outside a gas station is advertising, but it’s hardly going to convince someone to buy a car just to buy gas from them or drove dramatically more.

Unfortunately, more widespread and effective advertising has real costs that end up raising prices. Coke’s premium over sugar water is backed up by their advertising spend.

Tracking, manipulation, etc are major downsides to advertising. But, even purely informative adds on TV aren’t free.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#272

I'm always surprised that someone would go through the trouble of justifying their involvement in something prima facie unethical -- in writing, no less -- and fail to address the actual ethical issue. As other have noted in comments, the problem is not with advertising in general, but with the specific way in which Google advertises. I have a hard time believing the author is unaware of this, so I'm left wondering:…

The second paragraph begins with how much the author gives to charity. So I'm assuming that the author is very aware about ethic questions, and the whole piece is about painting the whole privacy intruding industry that dominates the entire world in pinkish colors.

The advertising industry is bad enough that it's not necessary to exaggerate by saying things like "dominates the entire world". Unless you do indeed mean that, in which case, how do you define it?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#273
post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

Are you saying there is something specifically about ads that make using these products friction-free or non-hostile? Or are you just saying that you like that the products are free?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#274
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen any evidence of anyone hurt by the large scale collection of personal data by Google and FB.

If you are a woman have fun seeing ads for makeup and fashion all the time. There is a reason female users are hot commodity for any ad driven company, companies are willing to pay way more to advertise to women. Targeted ads supports the status quo instead of exposing everyone to stuff they might want.

Targeted ads are much better at exposing people to new products they could want to try than non targeted ads, which appeal to the lowest common denominator. You're actually asking for better targeted ads for your gf

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#275
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

small data points from here compared to the big lot.. friend unsure about her marriage.. getting ads to sell her wedding ring via fbook.. they divorced 2 months later. Guess what the first thing she did was? A friend's father.. gambling addiction and an android phone - sleeps on the streets and eats via dumpsters, still keeps that addictive android device running. Google sending data on people to fusion centers.. may…

IMO these are weak examples. - Are you suggesting that your friend got divorced so that she could sell her ring, because an ad told her she could sell her ring? I doubt that was the straw that broke the camels back. - The android phone has utility beyond it's addictiveness. Yes homeless people need a phone. - Re fusion centers: ads targeting data is a relatively shitty surveillance too, the three letter agencies have…

Agreed on all of this, + Facebook and Google both ban images of alcohol on their ad networks. Even someone holding a glass of wine.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#276

I'm always surprised that someone would go through the trouble of justifying their involvement in something prima facie unethical -- in writing, no less -- and fail to address the actual ethical issue. As other have noted in comments, the problem is not with advertising in general, but with the specific way in which Google advertises. I have a hard time believing the author is unaware of this, so I'm left wondering:…

To be fair it's not that ads are making anyone physically suffer. It might be an annoyance for some people or even considered a privacy threat. But it's not undisputed. That said, when I was a kid with no credit card ads were the only possibility to register a domain, host a website or for that matter even receive a fax. ;)

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#277

Unpopular opinion: Ads by themselves are unethical. Whether targeted, contextual, or just randomly applied. Ads are psychological warfare against a populace using their very nature against them. All in an effort to get them to change their behavior in a way that's going to be detrimental to them. Either they stop looking for alternatives, or they make purchases they don't need to (see: toothpaste consumption rates).…

Not having ads is also unethical. Imagine trying to spread a novel idea / product to a society or an oligopoly that wants to oppress you

If society, or "the oligopoly," wants to suppress you, the ad industry isn't going to help you. They wouldn't want to run afoul of these big movers and shakers for a couple of hundreds of dollars.

Try running ads now for the KKK's new "hoods and cloaks" business if you'd like a practical example.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#278
Someone who works on ads!? Thank goodness.

recent experience:

Friend needs to google ads for new location in another state. I say call google and get setup - your web site is good - and they will actually answer the phone when you call for this.

Couple months later - zero calls for new clients.

I take a peek into his campaign - it's set on some new fangled 'smart ads' - there is like almost no data on keyword clicks and such.

I mention that it's odd for ads for a specific niche (rolfing) to burn through a few thousand dollas in ads and not being a single new customer. (he laughs 'there is no way it's been thousands of dollars' - I did not laugh and said yes you have spent thousands already I can see THAT in your stats - he had no idea)

He reaches out for support via phone and help forms. Eventually I do the same.

The pain one must go through filling out these long forms with lots of entries to get support - omg.

No one can figure out where the money went, which search phrases, etc. I start to work on negative keywords lists and location radius.. it burns another 2 grand - with no stats.

Support is delayed - even India is delaying things with covid at that point.. messaging is sparse - basic answer is we took your money, you agreed, sorry you got zero business.

His bank account wiped out and he did not even know it was happening. I think he panicked with his bank and they cancelled his debit card about that time.

I tried to create a new campaign for him that would be exact match and have good negative keywords at that point that would actually get clients and not waste clicks.. but his account was frozen.

More support attempts.. weeks later - a message saying similar to - pay us another $1800 - smart ads don't do good stats - sorry about your luck.

I had paused the smart ads campaign that google set up and created a better one - but at that point my friend was so soured on the google experience, and the ripoff that he did not want to pay the additional $1800 that could not be charged to his cancelled card.

Short story long.. this campaign was not setup and run by an ad agency - google set it up. It was a complete waste of money and time and it has hurt the brand not just wit the two of us, but others we share details on this.

I suggested they refund 1800 and let him start fresh with the new setup I created.. more long forms to fill out.. eventually no dice.

There was a time when I helped businesses with google ads and it made several places successful for some time. What google has become with their lack of customer support and transparency is mind boggling to me.

If the yellow pages helped customers make ads and charged 3 grand a month to run them and in turn zero new customers called - I would imagine there would be less ads in those sections next year.

Anyhow your google ad folks essentially took advantage of a 70 year old and wiped his bank account - and returned zero benefits.

Might be time for some changes with how all that works - maybe just stop the retail side of doing ads for small folks and make them go through an agency so you can place the blame elsewhere - or/and maybe an agency would do a better job making sure there were proper stats and return on investment in order to keep paying clients in business.

Right now the metrics and reports of taking money from small businesses while paying folks in India to sell and support it - it's really not working as well as it might look in those quarterly spreadsheets.

imho - ymmv.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no mention of ethics, and the privacy discussion ends with "I don't think my work in advertising is something harmful to offset." The author seems to think there are some good ideas to increase privacy that he is working on, but the existing problems are not serious enough to be considered "harmful".

It is here: > This model has some major drawbacks from a privacy perspective. Typically, the vendor doesn't just get that you are interested in cars, they get the full URL of the page you are on. This lets them build up a pretty thorough picture of all the pages you have visited around the web. Then they can link their database with other vendors databases, and get even more coverage.

Yes, I read that part. The article still ends with the claim that this drawback is not actually harmful.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#280
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem is not with advertising in general I disagree. Advertising is intrusive and designed to convince you to do things you wouldn't normally do. It's large scale psychological manipulation that's only considered ethical because we've been doing it for so long.

A sign outside a gas station is advertising, but it’s hardly going to convince someone to buy a car just to buy gas from them or drove dramatically more. Unfortunately, more widespread and effective advertising has real costs that end up raising prices. Coke’s premium over sugar water is backed up by their advertising spend. Tracking, manipulation, etc are major downsides to advertising. But, even purely informative…

"Last gas station for N miles!"

Whether true or not, it will convince you to top off your tank, and potentially purchase some things from the shop.

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