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Starting a crypto project

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Re: Starting a crypto project

#81
post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

Another good example would be a project like Uniswap on Ethereum that existed for a long time without a token. To your point precisely, Uniswap v1 was similar to the Bancor project but explicitly removed the token/tokenomics. The simplified launch made the protocol better for both them and their users.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#82
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't waste your breath dude, HN has become a safe haven for people that like to bury their head in the sand and shit talk crypto. Yeah, anybody that's actually knowledgeable in it know that what they're saying are the same old sad tropes that the news has been training people to repeat verbatim, but they've boxed themselves in and they'll die on this hill.

Where is a place to get a broader perspective on this? I've tried subreddits for some of the projects, the cryptocurrency subreddit, and google and youtube. I have a lot of difficulty cutting through the noise. (My sense is that projects like Ethereum could be extremely valuable but that its value is currently hurt by the speculation on Ether making transactions far too costly. I'd be very interested in getting expos…

I would add Andreas Antonopoulos's video, as well as the What Bitcoin Did podcast as good starting points. Also check out the book, Inventing Bitcoin.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#83
Having been part of launching Helium HNT token (which is honestly a real-world utility use case), here is my personal experience related to his points...

Helium started as a traditional centralized IoT project, realized that centralization was a limiting factor, then joked about turning it into a blockchain application. Now it is over $1.5bn market cap and provides a real-world utility.

Exchanges are pay-to-play. It feels bad to interact with them to get listed.

Lots and lots of scammers.

There is still so much untapped value in some possible use-cases, but honestly too many get-rich schemes.

Launching a new layer 1 protocol is a tremendous amount of development effort and I think underestimated by most.

Security is hard.

Scammers/hackers go after all project members personally. You probably aren't prepared for any kind of success.

5 years ago crypto wasn't mainstream. Fast forward to today, and when you say you're in crypto, everyone thinks you're a billionaire.

1.) Decentralization will come for sure (DAO LLC), but no matter what, there is still a Foundation of some kind.

2.) Community depends on utility. There are some amazing strong communities, but is in direct proportoin to the utility the token really brings. Otherwise, just pump and dumpers.

3.) I don't think it is 100% possible to truly decentralize governance. But people are trying.

4.) I don't believe this is true for everything. There are pump and dumpers, but many of the decent tokens today need to focus on utility, the tokens for speculation only will always be manipulated.

5.) I think the VC landscape has changed and maybe a more piling on, but couple of years ago, VCs wouldn't touch crypto and the VCs focusing on crypto (Multicoin, Polychain, etc) are very good and extremely smart.

6.) Time makes no difference. Since it is decentralized it isn't like you have a support team fielding issues. You can't fix anything in a moment's notice. Releases take careful planning and careful testing.

7.) Again this assumes there is no utility in the token. But he is right you can't talk about token price or speculation. But underneath it all you hope the token price goes up.

8.) 100% true. You can't build it and they will just come. It requires real marketing and PR. Most importantly branding. People are looking for value and community around your token. But the early adopters are FOMO speculators.

9.) Yes, legal fees are very high. Could be 7 figures.

10.) Taxes are becoming more clear. Cost basis and capital gains. But a lot depends on how you acquired your token.

11.) Basically, people will constantly claim your are scammers. Literally day and night. And people will spam free bitcoin offers to all your telegram and discord users. Every day and every night.

12.) I think insider trading is unbounded in crypto currency, but that being said a.) its still illegal and not sure founders would be participating in this, b.) its still unclear what really motivates the market. Crypto is heavily retail and the chatter as always be trolls, scammers and naysayers. But also fomo'ers. So hard to say how much insider trading will capitalize on information versus exchanges that can manipulate the volume data. I think whales can manipulate far better than insider trading.

13.) hard to say are we talking a stock market bear market or a crypto bear market?

14.) There are several tokens that have real utility and likely you aren't questioning your lifes' decisions. But lots of sh*tcoin maybe you are. But blockchain (layer 1) developers are still incredibly hard to find--so think they can pick whatever they want to work on.

15.) Again, utility (real use case) or pure speculation play. There are tons of garbage uses of blockchain that are a super poor fit. Hopefully, you don't work for one of those (does supplychain really need to be on a blockchain?)

16.) Unsure if that is true. I think most projects get a halo effect from the success of bitcoin. Most new tokens should be real utility instead of trying to replace bitcoin.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#84
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One perspective on money is that it's a resource-allocation system. I think more transparent, accountable, reliable resource allocation potentially has enormous social value.

Not if you create a system where it's literally impossible to redistribute wealth. If majority of tokens in a crypto system are controlled under priv-keys owned by a small % of the population we'll literally lock ourselves under the control of those people. Scary thing is that we won't even be able to vote ourselves out of the potential mess because the private keys are mathematically secured. Capitalism is going to…

Yes, it literally becomes the invisible hand that controlls the freemarket but it no longer free and no longer a market if nobody can get in. Ultimately the value we all get is exchange with eachother at a fair and stable price. The cryptospace could potentially solve this problem when the initial gold rush does some damage. In a way the attention is not bad because more people understand what it is, study it, become savy, vote legislature and deepen the field towards the problems that trully need a solution.

What we want is to basically transfer work/resource tokens and make it resistant against depreciation. Lets add a simplistic example I help someone build a house and receive a fair token for that work. When I need to build a house 20 years later I pass that token, it retains the value such that someone accepts it to do the work I did 20 years prior. Because we’re mentally stuck into an outdated economic model that served ok prior to the digital age our imaginations aren’t creative enough move in the right direction. My thinking is that a direction will emerge, let’s hope it’s as far away from the possibility you talk about.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#86
post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

Alright, so I make a two-sided market on chain, and the fees I charge accrue to... me? This seems like a similarly large legal headache to having them accrue to token holders! I am probably obligated to make sure that all users of my protocol are not Kim Jong Un, right?

Take a look at Sologenic. Sologenic is a fronted for the DEX. AFAIK they have no legal obligation to limit who is using it at all. The DEX as as its name says is decentral, they can not control it. They just make software that lets users use it. They can also not directly take fees because the DEX does not have fees (you make things decentral to remove the lurking middlemen who takes the fee) IDK how Sologenics business model looks like (they are pretty new) but I assume they will make certain features in their apps cost something. Possibly can be payed directly with crypto. KYC rules usually dont apply for such stuff. Fiat on-ramps have to deal with that. Hence using an existing system that already has the infrastructure is preferable.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#87
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different from the "web tech" space at large? Where investors will push towards "data-hoarding", privacy-invasion, dark patterns and/or addictiveness or other psychological "abuse", more often than not?

That's why it's the investment space that needs disruption - which is why crypto is met with so much pushback on HN. A year ago, crypto-related stories made front page much less often, if at all.

2017 was very different. Crypto type stories frequented the front page with technical marvels. Then a few things happened... 1) we evaluated 2) this scamconomy arose 3) the bubble burst.

I was excited then, when it was new to me, but then I learnt the truth about blockchain

Re: Starting a crypto project

#88
post #81
post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

Another good example would be a project like Uniswap on Ethereum that existed for a long time without a token. To your point precisely, Uniswap v1 was similar to the Bancor project but explicitly removed the token/tokenomics. The simplified launch made the protocol better for both them and their users.

Hmm whats the UNI token for then?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#89
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different from the "web tech" space at large? Where investors will push towards "data-hoarding", privacy-invasion, dark patterns and/or addictiveness or other psychological "abuse", more often than not?

That's why it's the investment space that needs disruption - which is why crypto is met with so much pushback on HN. A year ago, crypto-related stories made front page much less often, if at all.

Because people here try to understand the technology and its usage before riding the hype train. Most people investing in Ether for example have no idea what it even means. But when you ask them they would spit answers like "it's going to revolutionize finance..". When you ask them how, they have no answer. When you ask them for specific applications that they know of outside of the stupid NFT, they send you to Google. Yesterday someone on Youtube gave an example about a fridge that will order you eggs and milk when they run out, and everything will be done on the blockchain.

Not a crypto hater. I even invest for fun and because you cannot deny the opportunity to make money rn. But don't expect people to ride the train blindly. I do think that crypto isn't going anywhere. But the current valuation of these coins is just absurd rn.

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