LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online • Hacker News Board

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#571

Post by sizzle » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #27

nickysielicki wrote: post #17

The world is a scary and violent place. Without Liveleak, you might never feel it. Until you see the actual violence and gore, it doesn't mean anything, it's just empty words. I didn't care at all about wars in the middle east until I saw the reality on Liveleak. Seeing dead children and people with their legs blown off made all the commentary on CNN and Fox seem so understated. A lot is said about desensitization as…

War and terrorism was definitely made “more real” on LiveLeak than what you’d experience via the media or YouTube. I also found a real appreciation for other things: driving safely, worker protections, fire safety. These “boring” things take on more importance when you can see what happens when you ignore them. I don't think people should dwell on these morbid things. But seeing just one or two videos of, for example…

Watching an American beheading by either drug cartels or some random Middle East country properly fucked my head up at the ripe age of 12 or 13.

I too experienced the phenomenon of feeling the media was downplaying the extent of the sheer and utter devastation that comes with war and invading countries. That video shook me good and still haunts me to this day… It made me aware of the atrocities of life and wanting to be more involved in politics to make the world a less barbaric place.

Anyone else experience this?

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#572

Post by dfxm12 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #456

drawkbox wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LiveLeak is like those old drivers ed videos, it can make you better by showing how bad things can get. I remember pre-internet it was Faces of Death [1] (lots faked but still intense), then Ogrish then the makers of Ogrish going to LiveLeak. There is some value in seeing the worst humans have to offer as it gives you a wider picture, but also too much of that is depressing. People should seek out the full spectrum t…

I am dumbfounded by how snuff films went from taboo to infotainment. ~30 years ago, the Rodney King beating and the movie Natural Born Killers were shocking. Today, it's just another day.

Even 30 years ago, police violence against black men was just another day. The difference is you're now aware of the truth. That's a good thing. We can't learn from our mistakes until we're aware of them & can confront them without writing them off as merely a shocking outlier.

I wouldn't conflate movies and real life. A snuff film is not the truth. Woody Harrelson is not a murderer, Derek Chauvin is.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#573

Post by lo_lo_lo_lo_ol » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #17

The world is a scary and violent place. Without Liveleak, you might never feel it. Until you see the actual violence and gore, it doesn't mean anything, it's just empty words. I didn't care at all about wars in the middle east until I saw the reality on Liveleak. Seeing dead children and people with their legs blown off made all the commentary on CNN and Fox seem so understated. A lot is said about desensitization as…

When I was younger I drove way over the speed limit. Then I discovered places like Liveleak and saw videos of crashes, mangled wrecks and mutilated bodies.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#574

Post by criddell » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #498

secondcoming wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are videos of beheadings where it literally takes minutes for the head to be cut off. It's not a swift blow to the neck with a sword. I remember one where the executioner had to borrow a knife from someone in the crowd because his wasn't sharp enough.

utterly disgusting ... period. I almost want to vomit reading that. I hope you didn't watch that yourself. my point holds nonetheless.

I think you're being downvoted because you're point is really just whataboutism. It's perfectly valid to talk about the horrors committed without needing to point out that other groups do nasty things too.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#575

Post by rodolphoarruda » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

This is one of the best discussions I've seen in HN so far. It's amazing when great minds think about worldview formation and the role of Internet has on it.

I feel sad about the end of LiveLeak and what the site represented to very curious people like most of us here.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#576

Post by pasabagi » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

tfp137 wrote: post #544

kebman wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing that video of American special forces being shot down in Africa. I did my due in the army myself, but thankfully I never saw combat. I do know a lot of vets, tho, and... they've all got PTSD and many of them are in a very bad shape. After seeing that video, I've been even more thankful. For me it serves as a clear warning that joining the army isn't all glory, even if you're fighting for "the right…

The "other side of the world" wars are mostly fought by the young, because they haven't developed enough skepticism to ask whether what they're being asked to do benefits the country as a whole, or only certain actors and industries. The old and rich start wars, the young and poor fight them.

The old, rich, and stupid. One of the things that has been blowing my mind recently is the awareness of how many wars happen as a result of accident, miscommunication, and institutional inertia. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour started off as a hypothetical 'how could we win a potential war with the US', then over time, gained so much momentum that even though its principal architect thought it was a very bad idea, and although it was obviously not in Japan's national interest, it ended up going ahead.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#577

Post by selestify » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

natmaka wrote: post #569

SamBam wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, let's see if we can fix "officer-related shooting" too. The most recent one I saw: "A trooper-involved fatal shooting in Leonardtown that ended in the death of a 16-year-old." Both the "trooper-related" and the "ended in" passive voice to avoid saying "a trooper shot and killed a child."

"Children getting hit on sidewalks, sitting on benches" don't threaten anyone, and nobody calls any car driver upon them. The car driver is clearly the culprit, source of the danger. At least in some cases (more often than not, as far as I know) a police officer is called by someone who noticed a dangerous/chaotic situation, and the officer isn't the cause of it. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/peyton-ham-maryl…

The police officer is still very much the one who shot and killed the teen. The use of the passive voice is biased.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#578

Post by pasabagi » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #459

Barrin92 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liveleak doesn't portray the reality of war because it shows you some beheading. Voyeurism and gore are not the same as genuine insight into what scary and violent places are actually like. It's worth reading Baudrillard's ' The Gulf War Did Not Take Place ' on how media representation, and stylized, selective footage is used to distort. You didn't get to know the 'reality' of war, but the hyper-reality of it. If you…

A LiveLeak showing how people sitting in offices design these narratives and sell them to the public would be genuinely revolutionary - especially if it also showed uncensored video of the gore and horror of the results. IMO Baudrillard and the rest of Critical Theory are absolutely useless at this. The language is obscure, self-indulgent, self-aggrandising, and exclusive. Instead of revealing the reality of how thes…

For the record, Critical Theory doesn't really refer to Baudrillard or Lyotard - it's a term from Adorno, I think.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#579

Post by intricatedetail » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

Flow wrote: post #361

This is a big loss and it comes at a time where it will soon be more needed than ever. The last years has been brutal to "free information". Ever since Trump became president it seems a lot of people has begged the tech giants to filter and censor. And now they do. I remember early 2020 when rumors about a new virus in China came out. There were very little news about it. But on YouTube and Twitter you could find sca…

I have noticed that every time someone mentions China in negative light, they get downvotes. Interesting.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#580

Post by SamBam » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

natmaka wrote: post #569

SamBam wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, let's see if we can fix "officer-related shooting" too. The most recent one I saw: "A trooper-involved fatal shooting in Leonardtown that ended in the death of a 16-year-old." Both the "trooper-related" and the "ended in" passive voice to avoid saying "a trooper shot and killed a child."

"Children getting hit on sidewalks, sitting on benches" don't threaten anyone, and nobody calls any car driver upon them. The car driver is clearly the culprit, source of the danger. At least in some cases (more often than not, as far as I know) a police officer is called by someone who noticed a dangerous/chaotic situation, and the officer isn't the cause of it. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/peyton-ham-maryl…

Thank you for linking to the article showing that they improved the headline (possibly as a result of people pointing it out) to the significantly-better "A state trooper shot and killed.."

Are you suggesting that they shouldn't have changed it, because the kid was at fault?

"A trooper-involved fatal shooting in Leonardtown that ended in the death of a 16-year-old" could mean anything. It could mean that someone shot at a trooper, missed, and hit the kid. It could mean that a trooper shot at a dog in self-defense, and a kid was accidentally killed by the ricocheted bullet. It could even mean that someone shot at a trooper and the kid died of a heart attack from the noise.

"A state trooper shot and killed.." describes what happened. It's factual. It doesn't assign fault. If you think it creates too much of a gut-reaction that a trooper killing a 16-year-old is a problem, well, maybe that's a good thing because it suggests we should have more options to prevent that from happening. And if you think it's a good thing that the trooper shot him, well, the headline satisfies that as well.