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What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

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Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#41
post #36
post #25

I absolutely hate bargaining like this, and countries where you're hounded and hassled to buy things without price tags on. For me, it's an education on how not to do business. It's quite like spam email. Unfortunately this system just doesn't work with me. I'm less likely to go in a shop with no price tags on, because then I know I'll have to ask the shopkeeper the price of everything. It's inefficient. I guess if y…

I agree that bargaining is inefficient for small transactions but it is the basis of business, everywhere in the world, regardless of whether or not there are price tags.

Ah yes, but that's thanks to the absence of information. And technology (internet especially) are filling in the missing info, and putting the middle men, a.k.a those who bargain, out of business.

The railroads did exactly the same thing with other middle men. In general, that is how markets become more efficient, by putting hagglers out of business.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#42
post #13

The book mentioned by Cialdini was one of my favorite reads of last year. It just melts away and before you know it; you finished it.

I read this book 12 years ago and it changed my perception of most interacations with sales/service people. His stories of working as a busboy to watch the high performing waiters and what he learned was worth the price, alone.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#43
post #39
post #13

The book mentioned by Cialdini was one of my favorite reads of last year. It just melts away and before you know it; you finished it.

By the end, have you bought 3 more books, the training tapes, and a lifetime subscription to his newsletter?

I read the same book. It was compulsory for a management class I was doing.

A lot of people rave about how great it is, but personally I couldn't quite overcome the niggling voice of shame in the back of my head that said "You're reading a self-help book".

I felt dirty afterwards, and I stored the book in a drawer rather than on my bookshelf. It's probably not really a bad book, though.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#44
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that bargaining is inefficient for small transactions but it is the basis of business, everywhere in the world, regardless of whether or not there are price tags.

Ah yes, but that's thanks to the absence of information. And technology (internet especially) are filling in the missing info, and putting the middle men, a.k.a those who bargain, out of business. The railroads did exactly the same thing with other middle men. In general, that is how markets become more efficient, by putting hagglers out of business.

Being informed improves your ability to bargain, it doesn't negate the need for bargaining.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#45
post #19

I must confess that I very much hate bargaining. I can't overcome the feeling that the other person tries to steal my money, and now I have to be careful and defend myself to reduce the damage. Then, I will end up with a stuff I don't really need. Regarding the Turkey story, I just would not follow the man no matter what. I can't help, but persuasion doesn't work on me - the more other person tries to persuade me, th…

I must confess that I very much hate bargaining. I can't overcome the feeling that the other person tries to steal my money, and now I have to be careful and defend myself to reduce the damage. Then, I will end up with a stuff I don't really need.

Everything is a bargain. If the price is set by the company it's because they've already researched the most effective way to take everyone's money instead of just focusing on you.

Regarding the Turkey story, I just would not follow the man no matter what. I can't help, but persuasion doesn't work on me - the more other person tries to persuade me, the less likely I will buy anything.

Agreed

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#46
Look at the weave, this is how you can tell it is not machine made.

I hope he didn't believe that. Turkey is full of fake. People don't have a continuous relationship with the seller, so the seller focuses on selling something that looks great. For fruit and vegetables, this isn't much of an issue (What You Taste Is What You Get), but I struggled to find a bike. All bells and whistle, no quality.

That's the positive side of megabrands and chain-stores, they have reputations and standards.

I was surprised by how social haggling was in Turkey. As far as I can tell, a lot of sellers do not lower the price because you're going to leave the transaction (i.e.: the rational way); they lower it because they want to feel good about themselves. Typically, college students get better prices that way. Foreigners can get either royally screwed, or offered a free meal at a restaurant. Turks want to think of themselves as being great hosts (and they are).

I tried a few times to tell a merchant: I can get a better price elsewhere. Even if it was true, they didn't care.

We went to a high-end restaurant last week. 6 foreigners, some obviously older and well-off, and one Turkish girl. We sit, start eating, then want to order wine. She haggled. And won. I still don't get it. Presumably, the reputation of the restaurant was at stake. It'd be rationally selfish, but still. Foreigners are not coming back!

The requirement to haggle in so many situations has some unfortunate day-to-day consequences. Some Turks become used to lying under all circumstances. (though to be fair, I got some of my best relationships ever here)

Last anecdote: some cafe manager told me he has trouble finding personel. They pay an employee 1.50$ / hour (1$ if you're unexperienced, no joke) in my city. The price of a beer might be around 2.50$. The ratio is much worse than in the Western world, so I ask him, why don't you increase the pay? Nuh-uh, he said. Things don't work that way around here.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#47
post #28

I see this more of a lesson in persistence paying off, and understanding your client, their needs, how to predict and answer their questions, and behave to sell effectively (in this case usage of the environment) - things any entrepreneur in any business needs to know. Yes, it is a social hack and manipulation to an extent (I don’t agree with bringing the kids in etc., that is low), but these are the same lessons and…

+1 to you sir. The author did not think that he was conned or purchased an inferior product or paid too much or even purchased something unnecessary. This is a success story of how to sell a luxury item that both parties agree was an unnecessary item, with the customer being actually satisfied at the end.

The magic of the Turkish Carpet isn't about closing the sale, it's about the sale process accumulating in the fact that you feel good that you've made the purchase. The entire process was really all about the customer receiving attention, trivia, entertainment and respect -- these are all added values to the end product.

A lot of web apps are completely unnecessary : what can we learn from these guys to sell well made but unnecessary stuff?

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#48
post #40
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they? It's not about what's new, it's about what's effective. And these tactics have been effective for thousands of years. Of course, they're more effective with tourists who haven't been exposed to this sort of bargaining before, and have been trained to smile, nod, and pay whenever someone tells them a price. Still, this sort of salesmanship is -- and will always be -- effective. Why? Because it's person…

Yes, but for thousands of years there hasn't been an Internet with bloggers detailing this sort of thing for the rest of the world. :) I was commenting less on the haggling aspect and more on the team-based shill/forced-reciprocity system.

Knowing what it is when you see it does not make you immune to social engineering. The author knew right away what they were doing, but it still worked.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because its interesting, has to do with negotiation and the psychology of bargaining.

actually this example in the rug essay is not a good one. If you want to understand & use negotiation, read Shell's "Bargaining for Advantage" : http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036971/

the negotiation in the example isn't good, but looking back on his purchase in retrospect he admits that and identifies the reasons he ended up purchasing the rug.

on a side note, "Getting to Yes" is also another good book on negotiation.

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