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Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#71

Post by akie »

teekert wrote: post #38

Moderna already waved their rights last year [0]. But the production of such vaccines is not easy and I believe that an organization grows and learns as a whole as a solution so complex is developed. Consequently it is not easy to replicate what they do. I think at best this puts a cap on the vaccine's price since "in theory" given enough financial incentive the vaccine can be reproduced. That's my theory, feel free…

All these interesting theoretical arguments while people are dying in droves... India was EXPORTING vaccine to the UK until not so very long ago. Maybe they don't have the capacity to produce the mRNA vaccines, but they most certainly have the capacity to produce viral vector vaccines such as AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson.

I strongly believe it is our moral duty to buy-out or invalidate the IP of (at the very least) these viral vector vaccines lest even more people die unnecessarily, while we are having interesting theoretical armchair arguments from the comfort of our increasingly vaccinated western societies.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#72

Post by refurb »

My cynical take after having worked close to the industry:

- this was not done without some level of agreement (probably not enthusiastic agreement)from the companies affected

- other companies can use the IP, if they can make it work (major challenge with the mRNA vaccines)

- for the mRNA vaccines this will have little to no impact; other companies can use the IP but it will take a year or more before they can start producing vaccines, and by then we’ll be onto v2.0

- the IP holders will enter into licensing agreements before any IP is broken (in exchange for technical help). Companies won’t miss out on much revenue since these werent priority markets anyways

Basically the manufacturers will keep the wealthy western markets to themselves where all the profit is while gaining PR by opening up more access for developing countries

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#73

Post by meepmorp »

newsclues wrote: post #42
titoCA321 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really matter, waiver or not. It's not like most industries or people can go about making this vaccines themselves. That's why I sometimes laugh about these folks that what to invalidate patents and have everything in the open. If Toyota posted schematics of their trucks online, do you think, you and I could build one without throwing resources, time, and money down a toilet? I would have better luck growing…

But what if there is a factory that can spit out lots of effective vaccines if given the recipe? Shouldn’t we use every resource available?

If such a factory existed, it'd be making vaccines already.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#74

Post by apexalpha »

throwaway4good wrote: post #27

Something here smells deeply hypocritical. Currently vaccine companies such as the German Curevac (which is the vaccine company Trump famously tried to buy) is being held back by lack of core ingredients which are under American export bans. The US still upholds the export bans setup by the Trump administration. Biden can just revoke those. Yet he promotes the idea of waivering vaccine patents knowing well how hard t…

The US put an export ban on basically everything regarding vaccines, very early on. If you look at the amount of vaccines produced, the US and EU are fairly close to each other.

The difference in Vaccine rollout comes from the fact that the EU exports vaccines to other countries while the US does not.

As a European I would've been in favour of more export controls, but a total ban seems to go too far. Why should 18 years olds in the EU/US receive a vaccine before 75 year olds in other countries?

Then again, the EU exported to countries that are now further ahead than the EU itself, which seems the other extreme end.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#75

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

teekert wrote: post #38

Moderna already waved their rights last year [0]. But the production of such vaccines is not easy and I believe that an organization grows and learns as a whole as a solution so complex is developed. Consequently it is not easy to replicate what they do. I think at best this puts a cap on the vaccine's price since "in theory" given enough financial incentive the vaccine can be reproduced. That's my theory, feel free…

> But the production of such vaccines is not easy

Oh?

" "Manufacturing mRNA vaccines is surprisingly straightforward. Compared to conventional vaccine production, mRNA factories are: * 99 - 99.9% smaller * 95 - 99.7% cheaper * 1,000% faster"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27061674

https://coronavirus.medium.com/manufacturing-mrna-vaccines-i...

https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1389978947723546625

https://aiche.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/amp2....

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#76

Post by teekert »

akie wrote: post #71
teekert wrote: post #38

Moderna already waved their rights last year [0]. But the production of such vaccines is not easy and I believe that an organization grows and learns as a whole as a solution so complex is developed. Consequently it is not easy to replicate what they do. I think at best this puts a cap on the vaccine's price since "in theory" given enough financial incentive the vaccine can be reproduced. That's my theory, feel free…

All these interesting theoretical arguments while people are dying in droves... India was EXPORTING vaccine to the UK until not so very long ago. Maybe they don't have the capacity to produce the mRNA vaccines, but they most certainly have the capacity to produce viral vector vaccines such as AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson. I strongly believe it is our moral duty to buy-out or invalidate the IP of (at the very leas…

I agree with you, this situation warrants a breaking of all our rules. And I hope that something good will come of it, other that then increased number of produced vaccines.

I know it's theoretical, I'm just saying, perhaps it will not be all good. But we'll deal with that when we get to it. Maybe viral vaccines should be an organized governmental effort from now on. Coordinated by WHO or something.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#77

Post by meepmorp »

refurb wrote: post #70
beckman466 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are knowledgeable on this, please could you write a short list of the total amount of patents the vaccine currently consists of, or link to a good source?

That’s not easy information to get. Startups pay a lot of money to do a “freedom to operate” study to see what patents are out there and who owns what. You can pay companies for high level info, but it’s not easy at all.

You did say

> There are plenty of other parents needed to make the actual vaccine

So asking for the other patents involved is a reasonable question, especially since your assertion presumably involves knowing - at least vaguely - what said patents might be.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#78

Post by apexalpha »

makomk wrote: post #53
throwaway4good wrote: post #27

Something here smells deeply hypocritical. Currently vaccine companies such as the German Curevac (which is the vaccine company Trump famously tried to buy) is being held back by lack of core ingredients which are under American export bans. The US still upholds the export bans setup by the Trump administration. Biden can just revoke those. Yet he promotes the idea of waivering vaccine patents knowing well how hard t…

Yeah, and if Trump was still in power I have zero doubt the media would call him out on what a cynical stunt this is - but Biden is in charge now, and that makes a huge difference to how they report on everything.

It must sting that the (arguably) only successful thing to come out of this America First policy is now being credited to the Biden administration.

For all the mess Biden has inherited, he also inherited a near perfect vaccine production program. The reversals issued in the first 100 days did not reverse any export bans or regulations the Trump admin put in place for the vaccine production and rollout.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#79

Post by ChemSpider »

akie wrote: post #71
teekert wrote: post #38

Moderna already waved their rights last year [0]. But the production of such vaccines is not easy and I believe that an organization grows and learns as a whole as a solution so complex is developed. Consequently it is not easy to replicate what they do. I think at best this puts a cap on the vaccine's price since "in theory" given enough financial incentive the vaccine can be reproduced. That's my theory, feel free…

All these interesting theoretical arguments while people are dying in droves... India was EXPORTING vaccine to the UK until not so very long ago. Maybe they don't have the capacity to produce the mRNA vaccines, but they most certainly have the capacity to produce viral vector vaccines such as AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson. I strongly believe it is our moral duty to buy-out or invalidate the IP of (at the very leas…

But how will waiving the IP help India to produce more? They already have all the licenses they need. It is a resource constraint, not a license/IP issue.

If US/UK would finally allow vaccine exports like the EU does, _that_ would help India.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#80

Post by AmericanChopper »

supernova87a wrote: post #3

How would a "waiver" work? Last I understood about law, a country can't take away the rights of companies (or people) without their consent or modifying the patent laws. Or is this a matter where because it has to do with overseas patent protection, the US could decline to enforce certain agreements? And don't companies have patent protection in every country they seek to do business anyway?

Waiver is a euphemism that implies the states discussing this own the patents. It would more accurately be described as a confiscation. It also seems like the best way to ensure the next pandemic doesn’t get a vaccine.
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