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Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

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Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#461

"Do you guys not have phones?" -Blizzard staff in 2018, in response to booing fans upset that Blizzard wouldn't make a PC version of a game those same fans obviously wanted to play. This company has been contemptuous of their players for years. They fell into that classic trap of "If we [do something that will alienate all our customers] we can get 10x as many customers from [untapped market]" As anybody should have…

I think this is more of the enthusiasts vs. causal user conundrum. Gaming has made the transition to a mature industry where mass market appeal is more profitable than a great product aimed at enthusiasts. I can't really blame either side. It sucks for enthusiasts who want games that are complex, to be offered a watered down experience full of MTX. But it sucks for studios when they sink a 10xs the money into produci…

I tend to think that; if you look at the landscape of ultra-successful triple-A game studios, they almost all started with Passion before Money.

This seems obvious, but there are examples to the contrary (Zynga, etc). Assassins Creed was a legitimate artistic experience long before Ubisoft began milking it for everything its worth. Stories out of Bungie during the Halo trilogy era paint a picture of a college dorm, filled 24 hours a day with people working because they loved the product; a far cry from the billion dollar delayed outsourced forced-overtime disaster of Infinite (though, to be clear, nothing is all roses). Near every franchise that is worth anything nowadays started in raw, true passion.

Its difficult to simply say "Money shouldn't matter", because it absolutely does matter, but when it starts entering into the equation guiding development decisions, the quality of the product will decrease, and over the long term the company will begin making less money from their games. Call of Duty is a great example, which has seen reducing sales every year, until the Modern Warfare remake (also a bad sign; when a company has to reach back to their glory days to reignite the playerbase). Warzone captured a zeitgeist, but Cold War met with poor reception; the passion is gone, and players recognize that. More applicable to the article; WoW as well, where every expansion released since Wrath has seen a decline in player-count (except spikes when they first release, and Legion saw a small uptick, which per the previous parenthesis was mostly just a "hey remember Burning Crusade" expansion); its not a coincidence (though certainly not the whole reason) that Wrath introduced Dungeon LFG late in its cycle, and Cataclysm introduced Raid LFG soon after.

I don't know how companies can engineer an environment which helps maintain this flame of passion for the decades a franchise can last, except to say that the business should absolutely be firewalled as much as possible from anyone implementing the artistry. No talk of revenue; no metrics targets. That's a trust fall; businesses don't tend to like trust falls, but on the other side of the coin, this is more-or-less the model Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo all follow with their first-party titles, and the general high quality shows. Its a luxury for them, but seemingly a necessary one. Centralizing artistic power in an individual also seems to help; many incredible games, despite being the work of many, tend to have names predominately associated with them (The Last of Us? Neil Druckmann. Mario? Miyamoto), whereas bad games tend to be associated with a company (which may point to less artistic agency in any individual and more design-by-committee).

The world would benefit from learning about what makes some game companies so insanely successful (Nintendo being a big one); but, I also suspect, companies which have nailed the culture & process necessary to make it happen aren't keen to share, as its a serious, serious moat. One thing is for sure; I would not jump at the chance to emulate whatever Activision-Blizzard is doing right now.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Jeff had much involvement in the esports aspect. He seems like he wanted to make a game for casual gamers just having fun with friends, but Activision wanted the sponsorship revenue from an esports league. Despite all odds, they did make something that the best professionals in the world can play, while still being fun for people that have no idea what's going on. I tried to get into Overwatch League, b…

My post wasn't really about esports, but I'm happy to chat about it. Overwatch was built intentionally to be a game that fostered an esports community. Jeff had a big part in the esports aspect of Overwatch in that the game was meant to be their gateway into LoL-esque esports. They wouldn't have made Overwatch at all had they not been interested in getting involved in esports seriously. > I tried to get into Overwatc…

> It sounds like you just don't really like sports/esports.

It's not that exactly. There is much that can be learned from the world's best players training together and performing together against an opponent that does the same. It's just the format is unwatchable. I do find watching sports on TV similarly impossible, whereas watching them in person is much more enjoyable.

I mostly watch streams. I don't think solo queue is as interesting a game as full teams playing multiple games together, but you do get to hear one player's thought process, which is always enjoyable. That is probably incompatible with true competition, but is entertaining.

I think someone decided what esports should be, and everyone else just copied that, but we haven't actually hit the global maximum for the format quite yet. What's strange is that we often take steps backwards. There was one season when you got the ability to select your own camera angles and chat in a members-only chat, and that was the season that I enjoyed the most. Chatted with the regulars in there, got to watch whatever player I personally felt was most interesting to watch (usually Jjonak fragging people as Zen), etc. Then they removed that, as well as the ability to pay them extra for the privilege. Strange decision!

> The viewing experience for Overwatch is terrible. There's too much going on, and if you're not actively involved (playing), it's just awful. Colors and lights everywhere, weird sounds, orbs flying all around etc. I think Overwatch is kind of a failure in that regard as well.

I hear that a lot, but don't really have a problem with it myself. The thing that gets me whether I'm playing or not is when people use an ultimate at some range outside your current camera position, and it's totally silent and you have no way of knowing that they used it. There was a time when ults were map global sounds, and that got patched out for no apparent reason, and it's never really been discussed as a problem. But I think it's weird to play around a Zarya with grav when she just used it to kill some Wrecking Ball over in Narnia. Why punish players that are tracking ults? Never made sense to me.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why did the Orisa buff result in a Rein/Zarya meta? She wasn't in the meta before, she was changed, she wasn't in the meta afterwards -- but the meta changed. What's going on there exactly?

Sorry, if you can expand on which Orisa change you're describing I'd be happy to explain what happened in that meta. Nonmeta heroes get changed all the time and do not change the meta (unless they get changed enough to become meta heroes).

The no-crits-while-in-fortify change. Probably just a couple patches ago at this point.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#464

I miss the days of RTS games. Used to play a ton of frozen throne, and was getting back into it when Blizzard announced the remaster. Then in the act of launching the remaster they brought down the online ladder, causing me to leave the game and never return. To me it's because they want to be a multibillion dollar company and all their moves have to align with that. It's no longer good enough to make a solid game th…

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Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#465
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They stopped development on HotS, which never achieved the same level of pull as League of Legends. Which to me isn't surprising as HotS' way to stand out from the rest is also why it's not fun long-term. At first it seems cool that every map in the game has a unique objective that the teams compete around. But the game is balanced in a way that you either win that objective 2-3 times or you lose the game, with rar…

> Stay in lane for 20 minutes? Sure, why not You mean you are pretty much stuck doing just that for half the game. Hope you like lasthitting all day, GLHF.

If you think laning is just about last-hitting I can see that you don't like it.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if you can expand on which Orisa change you're describing I'd be happy to explain what happened in that meta. Nonmeta heroes get changed all the time and do not change the meta (unless they get changed enough to become meta heroes).

The no-crits-while-in-fortify change. Probably just a couple patches ago at this point.

Ah yeah. The Orisa change was actually mostly irrelevant to the meta at the time. The change that actually had an impact was the 2nd of 2 big Hammond nerfs.

At the time, teams were running Hammond/Sigma/Tracer/Echo mostly. Depending on the map, Rush (Rein/Dva/Mei/McCree/Lucio) was also viable. After the change in the patch you referenced, Hammond was no longer optimal so Sigma/Ball stopped being played in favor of almost fulltime Rush.

More recently Double Bubble has become popular (Zarya/Winston), but Rush is still played a ton and the dominant meta.

The patch notes for that patch can be found here: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/overwatch-reta...

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They stopped development on HotS, which never achieved the same level of pull as League of Legends. Which to me isn't surprising as HotS' way to stand out from the rest is also why it's not fun long-term. At first it seems cool that every map in the game has a unique objective that the teams compete around. But the game is balanced in a way that you either win that objective 2-3 times or you lose the game, with rar…

I strongly disagree. The maps add tons of variety and the objectives force you to have team battles instead of just one vs one landing to last hit minions all game. Shared XP is another part of making it less about winning your one lane The issue is they were late to MOBAs and made the game entirely free so there was no reason to really support the game. Eventually the finance people notice

> The maps add tons of variety

The maps remove variety because they shrink the possible space of what you can do to a finite number of gameplay objectives. The game tells you that some objective starts in exactly 1:27 from now and if you're not there at that time your team is disadvantaged and probably about to lose. That's not variety, that gets old quick, as a player as well as an audience for a professional league that you'd need to even start competing with any other Moba.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely agree and a lot of the popular WoW content creators (Bellular, T&E, etc.) seem to agree. They don't always mention casuals, but lack of progression is a major issue, particularly in Shadowlands. As a person spending too much time playing, you are basically forced to do non-LFR raiding, rated PvP, or mythic+ dungeons to actually progress your gear at all. Not to mention they seem to hate flying yet keep cre…

> Not to mention they seem to hate flying yet keep creating terrible zones unless you can fly. Yes, this is just an ongoing disaster. My sense from their communications over the years is that, when players fly through zones, that hurts the feelings of the artists, which Blizzard doesn't like. > There aren't clear routes between common locations like roads in Skyrim. I actually really liked how roads were handled in o…

>Yes, this is just an ongoing disaster. My sense from their communications over the years is that, when players fly through zones, that hurts the feelings of the artists, which Blizzard doesn't like.

Flying should never have been allowed in WoW, period.

Beyond the whole issue of players skipping content in zones artists spend months building, the mechanism severely distorts gameplay. A player being able to hover, descend to the ground, pick up an item, then immediately remount and rise back up—avoiding monsters—is ridiculous.

If flying had to be introduced, it should at least have been done with some sort of meaningful takeoff/landing process.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brands have value insofar as the consuming public recognize those brands, right? I'd wager that Diablo is most famous for the first two games which both came out 20 years ago, and that the enthusiast segment of the market recognizes this brand more than the casual segment (who, by nature of being casual, know less about historic games.) In the enthusiast/pc segment of the market, Diablo may still be a valuable brand.…

You'd be surprised at the cache that old IPs have with young people who've never played them before. Young people have still heard about the legendary games from places like YouTube but may not have the capability to play them.

> You'd be surprised at the cache that old IPs have with young people who've never played them before.

This is obviously what the bliz heads thought, but I doubt it's true tbh.

That legendary status lives in our head, and isn't necessarily translated because people hear about it. You can't inject nostalgia by describing it.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't say what's driving all the playerbase losses but: "The Blizzard Way" doesn't work anymore. Fortnite releases content monthly/quarterly. Massive updates with huge out-of-game tie-ins, changing worlds, in-game events, etc. Other games have changed to match/compete. CoD and Valorant both implement similar season-pass style systems. Blizzard, on the other hand, insists on delaying/cancelling games, releasing "o…

> Blizzard, on the other hand, insists on delaying/cancelling games, releasing "only when ready" Starcraft Ghost :(

Seriously, I’m so bummed this never was released. Still remember the gameinformer cover piece on it :,(
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