A Hybrid Approach to Work • Hacker News Board

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#91

Post by mLuby » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:46 AM UTC

jpm_sd wrote: post #46

> Whether you choose to transfer to a different office or opt for completely remote work, your compensation will be adjusted according to your new location. That's it, the end of geographic arbitrage. No more working from the mountains on a Silicon Valley salary. Hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.

If you're in a relatively low comp area and decide to work remotely from a high comp city, does your location-based pay go up? Or is all "remote" work considered the same location pay-wise?

And furthermore, who's checking all of this—do you have to prove where you work, or just have a mailing address and a place to pay taxes?

I know one place that sent an inspector to verify the home office had the minimum required office equipment: a door and a shredder.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#92

Post by throwawayboise » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:55 AM UTC

graerg wrote: post #89

benrbray wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of etiquette, and of boundaries. In-person conversations are definitely a net positive if your coworkers are well-mannered. Also, there's this new invention called "doors" that I wish companies would get on board with. I hear that "opening" one's "door" can be used as an invitation to chat. :)

In retrospect, having an office was one of the few redeeming perks of academia. They were so far behind the times, they may have been ahead of their time.

I've had a lot of jobs in academia and only had an office once, for about 6 months, because nobody else needed it.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#93

Post by kyrra » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

koch wrote: post #12

> reset days I think it's time we admit that a five day work week is counterproductive. Even Google notices this but is probably too big to make that change to a shorter work week; the best they can do is "reset days." Smaller companies seem to be doing fine with a shorter week.[1] [1] Buffer comes to mind first, other examples on 4dayweek.io

Googler, opinions are my own.

I don't agree with you. My read on why they keep doing reset days is that "down" time doesn't really exist anymore. When in the office at Google, there are lots of "fun" things that can eat up time. Be it team off-sites (this is a big one for me), office events, fun classes, etc... we don't have those. To me, reset days are making up for people working more due to being at home with fewer outlets to take up their time.

I also get the feeling that people are taking way less vacation. Vacation is important to most people's sanity at a company, so reset days help with that as well.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#94

Post by peder » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

And this 3 days in the office business won't work well either. If not everyone on the team picks the same 3 days to be in office, then what are you gaining? How would it make sense if there's barely any overlap among team members?

I don't think these companies have thought this through. Logically, the 3 days a week in office will slowly become 2, then 1. Or maybe teams will decide to only get together 3 days a month or something like that.

At that point, you're effectively fully virtual anyway.

These companies need to just dive right in, because the suggested format smells of poorly thought out compromise.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#95

Post by solipsism » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

yamellasmallela wrote: post #83

solipsism wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted Do tell, given what you know about the Google promotion process, how a choice to work remotely would translate to a decreased likelihood to be promoted (and, importantly, to an unfair degree)?

If you don't get promotions you lose certain stock grants which greatly reduces your pay The entire system is a scam and built specifically to keep you at google and drinking the kool aid

You're misinformed. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#96

Post by geodel » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

garet2 wrote: post #59

softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

> you harm people out of the office I have seen this implication frequently in these discussions, that remote workers will get fewer promotions, lower ratings, etc. The assumption is that this therefore makes remote work non-viable. I don't really get that. Trading off better compensation through promos and ratings is just a business decision for the potential remote worker. Personally, I would trade never getting a…

This is very sensible point you have made. I said something similar in another thread that not everyone is looking for in-person watercooler conversation, office politics, promotions / raise and so on. Some people like me are fine with finishing up assigned work, attend phone/webex meetings and be done with it. It is usually run-of-the-mill n-tier business application for next requirement for last 10 years. By not going to office the only thing I am missing in 2 hr commute and crowded elevators and rest rooms.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#97

Post by geodel » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

peder wrote: post #94

softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

And this 3 days in the office business won't work well either. If not everyone on the team picks the same 3 days to be in office, then what are you gaining? How would it make sense if there's barely any overlap among team members? I don't think these companies have thought this through. Logically, the 3 days a week in office will slowly become 2, then 1. Or maybe teams will decide to only get together 3 days a month…

I get what you are saying. But for some folks even few days per week of avoiding commute hell and general dreariness of office is better than everyday at workplace. I'd be happy if my employer allows that.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#98

Post by AndrewUnmuted » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:51 AM UTC

jpm_sd wrote: post #46

> Whether you choose to transfer to a different office or opt for completely remote work, your compensation will be adjusted according to your new location. That's it, the end of geographic arbitrage. No more working from the mountains on a Silicon Valley salary. Hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.

Not sure it's gotta be so gloomy. You can still work from the mountains very, very comfortably at 50% of a SV salary.

If you aren't working for a major publicly-traded big tech firm, chances are this is not going to be happening to you in the first place. Big tech's motivation for doing this is clearly cost-cutting and avoiding liabilities they cannot yield total control over. If Google can't get you fat & giggly on paternalistic "benefits," hosted on their corporate campus, they're afraid you won't become the subservient non-skeptical workhorse they believe they need. So, they've got to start finding ways to offset the costs they believe will be coming from having employees who aren't being dominated under the total surveillance and control of Google's ever-present watching eyes.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#99

Post by throwawaygler1 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:51 AM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #43

> We’ll also offer opportunities for you to apply for completely remote work (away from your team or office) based on your role and team needs. Before the pandemic, we had thousands of people working in locations separate from their core teams. I fully expect those numbers to increase in the coming months as we develop more remote roles, including fully all-remote sub teams. This is the most interesting bit that I sa…

10+ of my co-workers at Google have left for permanent wfh positions in the last month or so, I suspect that significantly influenced their decision to change their stance. Before that, their attitude was "people will vote with their feet" and when people started actually voting with their feet, this got announced pretty quickly.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#100

Post by tsimionescu » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:52 AM UTC

graerg wrote: post #89

benrbray wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of etiquette, and of boundaries. In-person conversations are definitely a net positive if your coworkers are well-mannered. Also, there's this new invention called "doors" that I wish companies would get on board with. I hear that "opening" one's "door" can be used as an invitation to chat. :)

In retrospect, having an office was one of the few redeeming perks of academia. They were so far behind the times, they may have been ahead of their time.

Not a contradiction in any way, but you reminded me of the dark side of academia and offices with a story I heard from my local university.

They had a new building constructed, including a very coveted corner office. A student organization was absolutely delighted when they received that corner office, and thought it was a sign of growing appreciation for their work. Turns out, it was actually a way out of a political quagmire: professors had fought for that office so bitterly that it had gotten to a web of "ok, I will accept that you're not giving it to me, as long as X doesn't get it either". The student organization wasn't really hated by anybody enough to be part of this web, so they got it just as a way to avoid pissing anyone off too much.