Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#441

Post by fuzxi » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

calrueb wrote: post #375

darth_avocado wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I have a warped view of SR. Yes the idea that you win more than 50%, you’ll eventually get there is flawed. Especially in lower ranks where there’s an overcrowding of salty folks who leave, throw, smurf, pick heroes not based on need and just straight up don’t play the objective. I agree that the logic works at higher ranks, but it simply doesn’t at lower ranks. Performance based SR is important for low…

This is anecdotal, but when I host my buddy at my place (he is high diamond on all roles) sometimes he'll hop on my account (low silver on all roles) and steamroll. I'd say 3-5 wins per loss, and he tends to stay off his mains. Yes bad games happen, but he consistently will leave my account at a higher SR than when he arrived (please don't ban me Blizzard). I am pretty confident a diamond level player could boost a b…

I recall ster making a new account, sandbagging all of his placement matches to land in mid Bronze, and then reaching Diamond in 6 hours. [1] I think it took him another week to make it back to Grandmaster. Granted, this was in Season 2 and I quit around Season 4, so I have no clue if they made any changes that would affect rank gain much.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaORwv8dkt0

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#442

Post by Fomite » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

AmVess wrote: post #81

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #8

I can't say what's driving all the playerbase losses but: They stopped development on Diablo 3 a long time ago. It doesn't have the staying power of more modern online games where new content is added continuously. They stopped development on HotS, which never achieved the same level of pull as League of Legends. Overwatch faces stiff competition from Valorant and other competitive small team FPSes, and also has over…

In terms of WoW, I'm sure a lot of it is focusing on the top raiding guilds and leaving the casual player with few rewarding activities. Further, one of their most cherished metrics is how much time people spend doing a certain activity. Instead of making those activities more fun and rewarding, they made them take longer to complete and with fewer rewards. To top it all off, they are nearly completely deaf to their…

This is sort of what lost me - and I've been playing WoW for a long time. It was clear if I wasn't running Mythics, Raiding or doing Competitive PvP, I'd be both hopelessly outclassed and not have much to do. I sort of idly tinker with the stories when I feel like it, but I'm drifting away.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#443

Post by blibble » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

smabie wrote: post #416

blibble wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you have a warped view of how the MMR/SR systems function essentially all that matters is your win-rate, if you can win more than 50% of your games over a reasonable stretch of time your MMR will increase and your SR will follow it performance based SR is only a very small bonus (up-to diamond) initial placement is essentially a guess: over 25 or so games your MMR will converge to where you're supposed to be (4200 su…

I get that, but I played maybe 200-300 hours of OW as dva and for some reason couldn't get out of silver. Nothing I did worked. Ended up creating a new account, ended up in high plat and quickly became diamond, never to drop lower again. Why/how did this happen? I'm not sure, but ELO hell was real for me. (Dva main)

different elos require different playstyles

as a 4k support main I found qp games with silver friends extremely frustrating due to the extreme chaos and lack of structure (normally devolving to team deathmatch)

the tanks don't know what they're doing (e.g. rein charging on cooldown, sniper dva feeding, etc)

the DPS don't know what they're doing (mccree going for cheeky flanks and dying most of the time/getting a single pick)

the other support doesn't know what they're doing (wandering off alone to duel people)

adjusting your playstyle works, so as a support you become super aggressive, the enemy makes near constant mistakes and you pounce on them immediately

vs. a GM game where everyone knows what their role is and the game plays much more "normally", and I can't get away with that sort of behaviour

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#444

Post by Fomite » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

kcb wrote: post #365

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely agree and a lot of the popular WoW content creators (Bellular, T&E, etc.) seem to agree. They don't always mention casuals, but lack of progression is a major issue, particularly in Shadowlands. As a person spending too much time playing, you are basically forced to do non-LFR raiding, rated PvP, or mythic+ dungeons to actually progress your gear at all. Not to mention they seem to hate flying yet keep cre…

> you are basically forced to do non-LFR raiding, rated PvP, or mythic+ dungeons to actually progress your gear at all. Those things are the game though and pretty much always have been. Raids, dungeons, or PvP. If you don't want to do any of them why would you have ever picked up WoW.

The thing is, those aren't "Raids", "Dungeons" or "PvP" - they're specific forms of them. You could run dungeons every day, do a fair amount of raids, and a lot of PvP and be left behind because you aren't doing rated PvP or Mythic+ Dungeons.

There's not even a "You'll have to put in a lot more time." It's just a lockout.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#445

Post by blibble » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

fuzxi wrote: post #441

calrueb wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but when I host my buddy at my place (he is high diamond on all roles) sometimes he'll hop on my account (low silver on all roles) and steamroll. I'd say 3-5 wins per loss, and he tends to stay off his mains. Yes bad games happen, but he consistently will leave my account at a higher SR than when he arrived (please don't ban me Blizzard). I am pretty confident a diamond level player could boost a b…

I recall ster making a new account, sandbagging all of his placement matches to land in mid Bronze, and then reaching Diamond in 6 hours. [1] I think it took him another week to make it back to Grandmaster. Granted, this was in Season 2 and I quit around Season 4, so I have no clue if they made any changes that would affect rank gain much. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaORwv8dkt0

there used to be different mechanics like a win streak modifier, which are gone now

but if you have a high win rate you climb more or less immediately (once you've unstuck the MMR confidence value)

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#446

Post by jrockway » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #315

tmpz22 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overwatch queue times are still pretty good outside of Masters+ competitive play (remember most players are quick play or Diamond and below). I'm fairly certain overwatch 2 and beyond will be just fine barring some massive screw-up. The main problem with OW was how much money they blew on the Overwatch League and E-sports partnerships - hundreds of millions of dollars invested and the top talent keeps leaving because…

>and the top talent keeps leaving because they are miserable Can you expand on this please? Why are things so bad?

Has making 17-year-olds move to a foreign country and work 12 hours a day 7 days a week ever worked well? That's what Overwatch League is.

The field is in its infancy, and some day the esports pros will negotiate like other professionals -- work/life balance, a big 401(k) contribution, and compensation commensurate with the fact that they'll be replaced by an 18-year-old when they're 22.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#447

Post by jrockway » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:30 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #50

aaomidi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it launches, one of the major faces of that project has left. There's not a lot of trust @ Blizzard releasing good updates to games anymore.

I'll miss Jeff, but he's not the end all of why Overwatch is a fantastic game. Bear in mind "faces" are often just that... the "face" of a large group, who generally is comfortable being in front of the crowds and talking with everyone.

Hearthstone just wasn't the same without Ben Brode.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#448

Post by EamonnMR » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #402

freshair wrote: post #29

"Do you guys not have phones?" -Blizzard staff in 2018, in response to booing fans upset that Blizzard wouldn't make a PC version of a game those same fans obviously wanted to play. This company has been contemptuous of their players for years. They fell into that classic trap of "If we [do something that will alienate all our customers] we can get 10x as many customers from [untapped market]" As anybody should have…

All this talk is making it sound like Valve did everyone a favor by bailing on game development at their peak :\

Blizzard bailed, valve bailed, who's left, really? But then again, a PC game has to compete with not only other PC titles but the entire history of Windows games via Steam/etc. You can make a brilliant RTS experience but will people play it when Starcraft exists?

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#449

Post by void_mint » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #440

void_mint wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that "The Blizzard Way" is not what Activision Blizzard has actually been doing for the past many years. This isn't true though. Delaying (and not announcing) Diablo 4 is typical "Blizzard Way" nonsense. Same with the Overwatch content drought. > Overwatch you would be surprised to know has some very impressive player numbers even now, for a game that gets no updates. Now that Jeff Kaplan is gone, I'…

I don't think Jeff had much involvement in the esports aspect. He seems like he wanted to make a game for casual gamers just having fun with friends, but Activision wanted the sponsorship revenue from an esports league. Despite all odds, they did make something that the best professionals in the world can play, while still being fun for people that have no idea what's going on. I tried to get into Overwatch League, b…

My post wasn't really about esports, but I'm happy to chat about it.

Overwatch was built intentionally to be a game that fostered an esports community. Jeff had a big part in the esports aspect of Overwatch in that the game was meant to be their gateway into LoL-esque esports. They wouldn't have made Overwatch at all had they not been interested in getting involved in esports seriously.

> I tried to get into Overwatch League, but found it hard to watch. All the rich colors and scenery of the game drowned out by the ugly monochrome of team colors. All the rich sound effects of the game drowned out by the world's most annoying casters. (Seriously, who hired these people!? Are real sports like this?)

It sounds like you just don't really like sports/esports. The casters are a big part of the experience. The game would be awful/unwatchable without them.

The viewing experience for Overwatch is terrible. There's too much going on, and if you're not actively involved (playing), it's just awful. Colors and lights everywhere, weird sounds, orbs flying all around etc. I think Overwatch is kind of a failure in that regard as well.

> Jeff's a good dude, and I do worry about the future of the game without him

I suspect there will be massive improvements relatively quickly.

Re: Blizzard has lost almost 29% of its overall active playerbase in three years

#450

Post by hinkley » Thu, May 06, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

uyt wrote: post #17

I am pretty hyped about playing d2 again with "Diablo 2 Resurrected". But I guess it's a bad sign that the most exciting thing they have going is a remake of a 20 year old past glory.

Meanwhile it sounds like the Runic folks have also lost the taste for Diablo games. They made Hob, which looks cool but the basic story arc is not compatible with multiplayer (also PC only).

They let some other studio make Torchlight III.