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A Hybrid Approach to Work

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Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#51

Post by tdeck »

srinivgp wrote: post #30
remir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well 60% of their workers chose to come back to the office. I guess not everybody likes working from home full time. Google can't really ignore that.

How many of those are quite aware that if they don't choose, they're on the chopping block? So far I've known exactly two people who actually want to return to the office more than just like once in a while for fun, regardless of what they tell their boss. And one shouldn't count much because she also is going to retire shortly. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier but not a "no really it's 60%" outlier.

I would like to continue working from home, as I've found it allows me to better align my time with my priorities and to be more productive. Since I'm in a great relationship and keep up with friends, I don't feel isolated. I don't miss the 2 hours of commuting on the N each day. I didn't expect any of this to be the case - I thought WFH would make me depressed and lonely.

That said, I know many people who really miss being in the office, including many former colleagues at Google. Some of them have kids, while others need the social aspect of in office culture. I really believe that at least half the company wants to work from an office.

That makes me wonder what happens with the other half. Having part of a team work remotely isn't ideal for those people - they end up being left out of things. On the other hand, it doesn't really make sense to just forget everything we've learned from the last year of remote work and force a big percentage o people back to a situation where they're less productive.

I suspect though that the latter is exactly what will happen to some extent based on Google's own statement, which is a shame. But we all have to give things up for work and many Googlers would be very reluctant to leave.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#52

Post by DeRock »

remir wrote: post #25
yamellasmallela wrote: post #5

This is really stupid. Most people do not need to be in an office to get work done. Google, and all these other tech companies, made record profits this year. I just don't get why they insist on keeping people in a seat? At least for google, offering all these on-site only perks is just a scheme to keep employees at work for as long as possible.

Well 60% of their workers chose to come back to the office. I guess not everybody likes working from home full time. Google can't really ignore that.

I think that 60% figure is misleading, it must represent people who have just come in to pick something up or drop something off. I'm working at another company in the valley, that is much more HW oriented, and its less than 10% of employees who are coming in with any regularity.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#53

Post by slavapestov »

softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

> It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations.

Seems like giving people a choice is the right idea. Maybe being less involved in these impromptu conversations is a worthwhile tradeoff for being able to live where they want.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#54

Post by softwaredoug »

jpm_sd wrote: post #46

> Whether you choose to transfer to a different office or opt for completely remote work, your compensation will be adjusted according to your new location. That's it, the end of geographic arbitrage. No more working from the mountains on a Silicon Valley salary. Hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.

Still the market will finally decide whether the arbitrage could work out. Plenty of companies aren’t changing pay based on where you live, namely Spotify.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#55

Post by huac »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #48
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

> You either choose to be fully digital, and make digital communication the way work gets done, or you harm people out of the office. I say this as someone who managed mixed distributed / WFH teams: If in-person conversations are an advantage (and they are), no company is going to willingly surrender them for the sake of catering to the people who aren't in the office. That doesn't mean teams can ignore the remote te…

What if a front-end engineer wants to switch to back-end (or vice versa)? Do they need to stop coming into the office, for example?

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#56

Post by slavapestov »

jpm_sd wrote: post #46

> Whether you choose to transfer to a different office or opt for completely remote work, your compensation will be adjusted according to your new location. That's it, the end of geographic arbitrage. No more working from the mountains on a Silicon Valley salary. Hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.

> That's it, the end of geographic arbitrage. No more working from the mountains on a Silicon Valley salary. Hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.

Location-based pay has been the norm at Apple, Google and Facebook already.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#57

Post by tdeck »

solipsism wrote: post #39
srinivgp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are quite aware that if they don't choose, they're on the chopping block? So far I've known exactly two people who actually want to return to the office more than just like once in a while for fun, regardless of what they tell their boss. And one shouldn't count much because she also is going to retire shortly. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier but not a "no really it's 60%" outlier.

Google has never had a chopping block. And your speculations are wild. But hey, at least you have those two anecdotes.

The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted. But Google has a very level-focused culture and many Googlers are highly motivated to keep getting promotions, so the incentives are there.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#58

Post by PragmaticPulp »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
koch wrote: post #12

> reset days I think it's time we admit that a five day work week is counterproductive. Even Google notices this but is probably too big to make that change to a shorter work week; the best they can do is "reset days." Smaller companies seem to be doing fine with a shorter week.[1] [1] Buffer comes to mind first, other examples on 4dayweek.io

In Spain: "Under the plans, an estimated 200 to 400 Spanish companies will voluntarily take part in the project by reducing their employees’ working week to 32 hours while keeping their salaries the same. The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff or to reorganize scheduling and shift patterns. That investment will be…

> The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff

This is strange. They're paying companies to hire extra workers so everyone can work fewer hours? Sounds more like a jobs program than anything.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#59

Post by garet2 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #21

> They’re testing new multi-purpose offices and private workspaces, and working with teams to develop advanced video technology that creates greater equity between employees in the office and those joining virtually. It just doesn't work when half of the team can walk by each other's desk, do some impromptu planning, and the other half are spread out across the world effectively uninvolved in these conversations. Nob…

> you harm people out of the office

I have seen this implication frequently in these discussions, that remote workers will get fewer promotions, lower ratings, etc.

The assumption is that this therefore makes remote work non-viable. I don't really get that. Trading off better compensation through promos and ratings is just a business decision for the potential remote worker.

Personally, I would trade never getting a promotion again for remote work. Google and the other companies like it already pay very, very well. If you've reached E6+, it's "FIRE in household income. You've basically won at money.

Commuting is miserable, and I bike, easily one of the two least miserable methods (walking being the other) of doing so. Open offices are miserable. Flexibility at home is amazing. Having my own space is amazing. Making my own food for lunch, in my kitchen, is great. Feeling unfocused and deciding to just take a nap in my own bed for an hour.

So yeah, maybe I'll never get a promotion. But, I don't think I'll do poorly enough to get fired, so... good enough for me.

Re: A Hybrid Approach to Work

#60

Post by slavapestov »

tdeck wrote: post #51
srinivgp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are quite aware that if they don't choose, they're on the chopping block? So far I've known exactly two people who actually want to return to the office more than just like once in a while for fun, regardless of what they tell their boss. And one shouldn't count much because she also is going to retire shortly. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier but not a "no really it's 60%" outlier.

I would like to continue working from home, as I've found it allows me to better align my time with my priorities and to be more productive. Since I'm in a great relationship and keep up with friends, I don't feel isolated. I don't miss the 2 hours of commuting on the N each day. I didn't expect any of this to be the case - I thought WFH would make me depressed and lonely. That said, I know many people who really mis…

> Some of them have kids,

Who takes care of the kids while they’re at the office though?

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