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Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

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Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#361

Post by anm89 »

paxys wrote: post #297
anm89 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clever switchout of the word "free market" here for "fair market". This is certainly for better or worse free market. I have never heard of the concept of a "fair market" beyond what any given person considers fair on a case by case basis.

A market isn't free unless it is also fair. Have you never heard of terms like "fair market value" before? Why do governments worldwide spend time and money regulating markets? Why do antitrust laws exist?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp > 200

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fairmarket.asp > 404

Free market is something like a technical term with a generally accepted definition within economics (sure you could squabble about the details of this definition)

Fair Market value is a saying that means you got what something is worth. Semantically you would break it up as (fair) (market value) not (fair market) (value). There is no implied shared definition of a fair market in an economic sense and that phrase is not implying that the sale was done in the context of a subjectively ethically "fair" circumstance. I think you are well aware of this though.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#362

Post by cochne »

slver wrote: post #342
SirSourdough wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure lots of businesses want to exploit workers, but that doesn’t mean they should be permitted to. The issue here is Netflix/Kinect being able to act on a predatory want.

Netflix isn't out there kidnapping people to take photos for them for free, so WTH would "predatory" mean. "Hey you wanna come take photos on a few weddings for a show? We can't pay" "No" See? Simple. That's a normal market. If people wanna do it free, they should be able to. If they don't, Netflix will have to pay someone. Why does anyone else have to get involved here?

Should the same principle imply we should abolish the minimum wage?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#363

Post by tshaddox »

bhupy wrote: post #359
tshaddox wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uh, yes? My question wasn't rhetorical. I actually do not know the history. If monarchy was indeed both socioeconomically important and a deal-breaker for founding the EU to a comparable extent as slavery in the United States, then I would think it's fair to call it a founding pillar. > Similarly, slavery as an institution had no bearing on the socioeconomic systems of the Northern States, but it was quite essentia…

> If monarchy was indeed both socioeconomically important and a deal-breaker for founding the EU to a comparable extent as slavery in the United States, then I would think it's fair to call it a founding pillar. The disagreement is that it's not accurate to call it a founding pillar even in such cases. "The founding pillar" of most unions has nothing to do with the specifics of members of that union, unless explicitl…

You seem to be using "founding pillars" to mean "what the founders claimed or intended the founding pillars to be." That's not what I'm talking about. For an actual physical building, it doesn't matter what the architect claims or intends are the parts of the building which are necessary for its structural integrity. Removing a chunk of the building either causes it to collapse or doesn't. Looking at the architect's plans and intentions may be useful, but it's clearly not the final source of truth.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#364

Post by rurp »

sixQuarks wrote: post #212
supernova87a wrote: post #122

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

I think the whole idea of this being work for $0 is incorrect. The "pay" comes in the exposure and authority the photographer will build after doing this. If you're going to hire a wedding photographer, all things being equal, if one says they did the photos for a show that you are familiar with, or appeared in magazines you're familiar with - that is worth a great deal in marketing value. A smart photographer can bu…

The Oatmeal gives a good response to this. https://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

As others have said, your argument is popular with business owners trying to avoid paying money to workers, but in reality it largely just excludes anyone who is not from a privileged background.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#365

Post by jVinc »

aiisahik wrote: post #29

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news. BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

Netflix is certainly capable of mildly pressuring production companies to follow guidelines like paying their workers in order to get the contracts.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#366

Post by bhupy »

tshaddox wrote: post #363
bhupy wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If monarchy was indeed both socioeconomically important and a deal-breaker for founding the EU to a comparable extent as slavery in the United States, then I would think it's fair to call it a founding pillar. The disagreement is that it's not accurate to call it a founding pillar even in such cases. "The founding pillar" of most unions has nothing to do with the specifics of members of that union, unless explicitl…

You seem to be using "founding pillars" to mean "what the founders claimed or intended the founding pillars to be." That's not what I'm talking about. For an actual physical building, it doesn't matter what the architect claims or intends are the parts of the building which are necessary for its structural integrity. Removing a chunk of the building either causes it to collapse or doesn't. Looking at the architect's…

Great, so by the logic you just set out, I think it's pretty clear that the "founding pillar" of the United States was a system that allowed us to eventually create laws that would be forced upon the slave states on account of the fact that they had originally agreed to join the Union. In other words, the pragmatic decision to keep mum about slavery (at a time when the abolitionists just didn't have the numbers on their side), is what ultimately led to its downfall after the Civil War and Reconstruction.

And another FYI, slavery was abolished in the Northern States before it was abolished in France, the UK, and the Netherlands. No reasonable person would call slavery a "founding pillar" of either of those countries.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#367

Post by supernova87a »

jedimastert wrote: post #277
supernova87a wrote: post #122

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

> We have tons of people who are locked out of well paying jobs because they can't get on the job experience or even get in the door at the wages being required (and experience demanded by those wages). Young people, people with less education. Minorities. Did you know that? It actually causes some people's heads to explode, that the good intentions of a policy actually might hurt the people it's designed (in a very…

Mentorship and looking for underprivileged talent is good.

Requiring wages to be set for the few who get the position will not solve the underlying inequity or the problem of people being too poor to afford allocating their time for unpaid job training. You're foreclosing the opportunity even, for people to make that choice to offer their labor in exchange for what they could gain from it.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#368

Post by BeetleB »

ipaddr wrote: post #128
BeetleB wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They probably will find photographers doing this for the promotion effect described in the email. Almost no couple will care - unless what they produce for Love is Blind is extremely out of the ordinary - but then they won't be able to afford it. There's a very good chance the photographers will get no new business because of this.

As seen on Netflix's Love is Blind plus the press interviews is a great deal. The question is how much would you pay for this opportunity? This buys you an instant reputation.

I'm not convinced. Wedding photography is quite expensive, so people will think quite a bit on who to get and what they're getting out of it. Pretty much everyone I know will not want to pay extra for someone "with a reputation" unless they can demonstrate that they'll do something better than the average wedding photographer. I'm willing to bet whoever is on this show will not really be better.

Of course, there are always rich folks for whom money is not an issue, and they won't spend any time thinking about it and will happily pay whatever for the guy who was on that show.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#369

Post by RHSeeger »

applecrazy wrote: post #326
RHSeeger wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that, just because they're doing work as an intern, that doesn't mean they are doing work they should necessarily get paid for. Both college and an internship are situations where - the junior individual (intern, student) is doing work - the junior individual expects to learn during the experience - the senior entity (college, company) is expected to put effort into making sure the junior has learning op…

> The thing is, "accordingly" is open to interpretation and, in some cases where the intern is getting a lot more than they give, it's reasonable to argue that it is "not at all". This depends. I am a student and at my last internship I was given work that nobody really had time for but ended up (towards the end) becoming a key part of a revenue-generating, customer-facing feature. While a senior could have done the…

> It seems absurd to me to pay an intern that much to deliver negative value to a team, don't you think?

I do agree, 100%. I think many interns add value and should be paid accordingly. I think many other interns cost more than the add (and gain a lot), and I can see where needing to pay them would mean they wouldn't be there at all. And I think there's a lot area between those two cases.

> This depends.

Honestly, that's all I was trying to say originally; that it depends on the situation.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#370

Post by BeetleB »

ryanackley wrote: post #171
shoto_io wrote: post #5

I might get downvoted for that, I still gonna say it: That might be due to the demand-supply situation in photography. They probably will find photographers doing this for the promotion effect described in the email.

The promotion effect seems like a fair trade IMO. I was a software freelancer at one point. I would've traded 5 days of work for getting my business (and face) in front of 30 million people.

Huge difference between the two. You have the opportunity to write SW that all those 30 million people can buy. A wedding photographer in Seattle doesn't really care if someone in Houston sees her work.

Also it's not comparable to missing 5 days of work. There's more work involved and it'll take longer than 5 days. It's not like they do 5 shoots every week.

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