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Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

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Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#341

Arguably discovering surprise bills absolutely should be part of the free tier, how else can you mentally prepare for running something in production on AWS?

If someone told me about a cool new programming language and to teach myself how to use it could either be free or maybe $5000 because infinite loops are expensive, am I going to learn it? Hell no.

Yeah, I'd dabble with this if not for me being forced to sign up with a credit card and them not offering any guarantees on how much they'd bill.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They already win on UX" As someone that has tried and failed to get some small personal sites running on AWS a couple times, I'm going to have to tag this snippet with [citation needed].

agreed especially when compared to say Heroku or Digital ocean. I see many new comers struggling to deploy a small website. It's overwhelming. I understand that Heroku exists for such users and they are using AWS under the hood, but is there any service which takes AWS cloud APIs and simplifies it with a leaner UX?

> agreed especially when compared to say Heroku or Digital ocean.

Funnily enough, I've never ever been able to understand what Heroku is, or how to deploy anything useful on it :) But I'm old, and I've always found it easier to tinker with nginx configs.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#343

Is there seriously no way in AWS/Azure/GCP to specify "Here's my budget, shut everything down if I exceed $X"? I don't use those platforms much but was always surprised I couldn't find anything like that right off the bat. I'll build cloud stuff if it makes sense at work, but if I'm footing the bill I'll stick to something that can provide an actual upper limit.

Azure will alert you when you exceed a budget, but it won't disable anything. Azure MongoDB billing was insanity. I was up to $800 to host a couple of GB that wasn't doing anything. I'm still not sure what happened, even their support kept saying "it's priced by request units" and I kept saying "How does a handful of queries a day translate to $40 in request units?" A year later, I think that I had a lot of collectio…

I work for MongoDB. The writer is referring to CosmosDB, the Microsoft clone of MongoDB. You can runa real MongoDB cluster on Azure with MongoDB Atlas. The pricing model for Atlas is per Node size + disk + memory + data transfer. It's generally easier to predict your costs using this model. Users tend to over-provision with this model so we recommend using auto-scaling. This will allow your cluster to scale up or down based on load (price will adjust as well).

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also going to point out, as a former AWS engineer, that "too hard" isn't in the AWS engineering vocabulary. If an AWS engineer were to dismiss something as "too hard", they'd be on the fast track to a performance-improvement-plan. The problem isn't that it's too hard. It's that it isn't a business priority. As soon as it becomes prioritised, a legion of very smart AWS engineers will solve it.

This is in line with all the bad things I've heard about Amazon. Why do people work there?

Why is this particular thing bad?

"Too hard" is not an excuse. They have all the resources they need at their disposal to get the job done.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#345

Everyone: PLEASE stop making the argument that it's "too hard" or even "impossible" to implement spending limits. As the article points out: Every other cloud does this! They all have non-production subscription types with hard spending limits. There's a difference between "unable" and "unwilling". The people that refuse to understand the difference are the same people that don't understand that "unsupported" isn't s…

I'm also going to point out, as a former AWS engineer, that "too hard" isn't in the AWS engineering vocabulary. If an AWS engineer were to dismiss something as "too hard", they'd be on the fast track to a performance-improvement-plan. The problem isn't that it's too hard. It's that it isn't a business priority. As soon as it becomes prioritised, a legion of very smart AWS engineers will solve it.

> "too hard" isn't in the AWS engineering vocabulary

Let these people fix climate change then.

Sarcasm aside, it must be boring working in a place where no problem is ever too hard.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same as it is not expected by anyone to know how to ride a bike or drive a car. Someone has to teach you or you have to go and take a course. Same with any technology, you should read first all the documentation that there is, watch all the videos that AWS releases every year for free where they explain in detail every service that they have, and try to explain the best practices of it - this is all for free, or…

Are you seriously suggesting that someone who wants to use AWS should go and read all the documentation and watch all the official videos available? That would take literally years. It's huge. It also doesn't solve the problem. If the user makes a mistake they still lose a ton of money. It's a really interesting problem. It's getting too big and too scary for a new developer to jump in and try AWS services, which mea…

1. yes I am, studying years to be a doctor, lawyer, Engineer etc from your point of view is also to much? Should you just start cutting people to figure out how a body works end expect for everything to be ok once you are done? The point being, yes you have to study to learn something, there is no way around it.

2. If money is a concern to you, then I should focus on learning how exactly the billing works and how to monitor correctly. This way you can build a product the right way, not to mention AWS by default has limits on their services set with limits that prevent you from doing something incorrectly. For example you can only make 5000 requests a sec on the API Gateway, you can only have 1000 concurrent lambdas, you can spin only 25 ec2 instances, ecc... (true, not all services have limits like this - but then again, if you want to use one, the first thing you should do is check the pricing page, this is what I do fro every new service that I'm planing to use).

3. AWS is not for developers, it is meant for SysAdmins and DevOps (true that some marketing materials are not clear on this), they should be the one configuring it to allow developers to host their code. If you want a turn key solution, then there are better solutions, like Heroku - incredibly easy to use and understand and have a much simpler billing structure.

With AWS you can do anything you want, AWS provides lego blocks, what do you build with it is up to your imaginations, and for sure it is not meant to be use directly by developers who have no idea how networks, computers, databases, cpu, ram, policies, storage etc works. Developers should focus on coding, and SysAdmins and DevOps should focus on managing the infrastructure.

And if you want to learn AWS because you want to be a SysAdmin, then it is true, that AWS could have a plan for beginners with even smaller default limits, and limits set on everything - this way you could more safely play with what they have. This would be a nice things to have in this case for sure.

But because they don't provide such thing, you need to be the responsible one, and start learning AWS the right way, and not get in gun blazing, and expect all will be ok. My recommendation is to learn one service at the time. If you do this, over the years the acquired knowledge will be gold. Plus the more services you learn the right way the easier it gets.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#347

Everyone: PLEASE stop making the argument that it's "too hard" or even "impossible" to implement spending limits. As the article points out: Every other cloud does this! They all have non-production subscription types with hard spending limits. There's a difference between "unable" and "unwilling". The people that refuse to understand the difference are the same people that don't understand that "unsupported" isn't s…

I'm also going to point out, as a former AWS engineer, that "too hard" isn't in the AWS engineering vocabulary. If an AWS engineer were to dismiss something as "too hard", they'd be on the fast track to a performance-improvement-plan. The problem isn't that it's too hard. It's that it isn't a business priority. As soon as it becomes prioritised, a legion of very smart AWS engineers will solve it.

You are correct, which makes it even more pernicious that Amazon chooses to not fix this ... profits at any cost is not a long term benefit ... the longer AWS fails to fix this more folks will tend to lean toward the competition especially Azure ... I have been a unix/linux server side developer since the beginning and always use a linux laptop so no fan of Microsoft however their Azure platform is lightyears ahead of AWS ... its obvious the AWS console web front end needs a wholescale rewrite from the bottom up ... again as you say its not a priority probably because all big consumers never use the AWS console as they have written their own automation layer atop the AWS SDK

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#348

Everyone: PLEASE stop making the argument that it's "too hard" or even "impossible" to implement spending limits. As the article points out: Every other cloud does this! They all have non-production subscription types with hard spending limits. There's a difference between "unable" and "unwilling". The people that refuse to understand the difference are the same people that don't understand that "unsupported" isn't s…

This really is not true. Spending limits are not supported by all major cloud providers.

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#349
I'm in agreement with the cloud providers over those of you wanting a hard shutdown.

Businesses, the entities that are paying the most money to AWS, will NOT want a hard shutdown. When you generate revenue off of your SaaS service maybe you'll understand.

No, I won't be pushing my TAM to enable a forced shutdown due to budget metrics.

Not to mention, how does AWS decide what to shutdown and what to delete? It's not like it's only running resources that cost money, what about all my data that's stored???

Re: Please fix the AWS free tier before somebody gets hurt

#350

Everyone: PLEASE stop making the argument that it's "too hard" or even "impossible" to implement spending limits. As the article points out: Every other cloud does this! They all have non-production subscription types with hard spending limits. There's a difference between "unable" and "unwilling". The people that refuse to understand the difference are the same people that don't understand that "unsupported" isn't s…

Nah, I think not. My business needs to run. Would be very painful if an engineer put in a hard shutdown at $X and then left the company only for me to find out after all my services are shutdown when we've grown past $X.

This is a hard no from me.

How is AWS going to even know what to shutdown/remove? What if it's storage causing my bill to overextend?

Yeah, not just no, but hell no.

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