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How Basecamp Blew Up

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#471

Post by bthazos »

edoceo wrote: post #359
JPKab wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. Where do you think this ideology and hypersensitivity originated?

I'm curious, was it academia? I mean, is there an origin story? I don't even know what terms search.

Probably. The historical origins are beyond me, but anecdotally I thought the 1994 movie PCU must've dealt a mortal blow to the political correctness movement because I stopped hearing about it and no one around me treated it as a real thing. In hindsight, the resurgence of mom jeans in the last decade should have planted seeds of worry in many a gen-xer.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#472

Post by SvenMarquardt »

thrownaway564 wrote: post #181
Tainnor wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But this is (was) a 60-person company. That's about the size of the company I'm currently working at. In other words, you should know everyone and interact with a sizeable chunk of these people somewhat regularly. It strikes me as very odd that you would suddenly so fundamentally distrust your co-workers with whom you share so much. But I'm also not in the US and maybe this is just the current climate over the…

The culture here is getting bad. We have an "inclusion council" that hands out these diktats. The word ban list (not blacklist!) is approaching 100 words including husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy. Worse part is we're a security company edit: "here" is okta, not basecamp

https://basecamp.com/about/jobs

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#473

Post by duxup »

otde wrote: post #463

Bit of a fool’s errand to try and avoid politics at work — like a fish trying to avoid water in the ocean. The ways companies are built and maintained, the relationship between employers and employees, workplace requirements and benefits — all of these are shaped by and and built from political systems, to say nothing of how politics surrounding a person’s identity might affect their worldview. You’re never going to…

I can understand being hurt and more about the funny names list.

But I think things have gotten out of hand when at an all hands meeting people are debating topics like:

"we live in a white supremacist culture"

Or demands from one employee to another at all hands meetings to denounce white supremacy.

I doubt many companies could handle that right... and I'm sure many people would come away more hurt.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#475

Post by SvenMarquardt »

JPKab wrote: post #232

Do what I did in February: Quit. Life's too short to waste time at a company that's forgotten it's purpose. This ideology borders on cult like. A good sign that you are dealing with an irrational ideology is non-sensical, illogical and inconsisten rules. For example, in this article, "Black" is capitalized everywhere its mentioned, and "white" isn't. There's nothing logically consistent about this, because it's a bor…

They're just following the Associated Press style guidelines: https://apnews.com/article/archive-race-and-ethnicity-910566...

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#476

Post by kbenson »

sagichmal wrote: post #387
kbenson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, when did racial equality become an inherently political topic? When it was turned into one by politicians and activists, just like masks were. I'm a firm believer that if you actually sit a few people down and try to have a sane conversation where people actually talk and don't spout slogans, you find that their views aren't all that different, then just put emphasis and importance on slightly di…

(laughs) "Politicians and activists" obviously didn't politicize masks. No coherent reading of the last 2 years supports that conclusion. It was the screeching Republican base, who decided on day one that the masks were a symbol of government overreach and I guess got Covid to own the libs.

You think the base got there all on their own, miraculously? The had activists that saw this as a way to push their agenda, and politicians that went along for the ride and reinforced it.

The base is multiple tens of millions of people spread across the entire United States and in many socioeconomic strata. The only time anything gets as widespread acceptance by even a portion of the base like the mask thing is because a narrative was being pushed that most of the base was exposed to. That used to be a hard thing to do (easier if you could rely on a large religious bloc to see it one way), and now it's a frighteningly easy thing to do. That's the point.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#477

Post by simondotau »

Tainnor wrote: post #177
prawn wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems OP's reaction is like what is rife in Australia as 'tall-poppy syndrome' and cutting down prominent achievers. We collectively dislike promoters, but isn't doing something like writing a book to draw attention to your SaaS product exactly the sort of thing a founder should be doing? Especially given it worked in bringing them customers and attention. If you think they're too confident in their assertions, it's…

That doesn't imply that I have to like his self-promotion book. After all, if I'm to read a book I want to get something out of it. As I already mentioned, the book has good parts, but it reads quite jarring in many places. Also, I guess this is personal, but a little humility is good for everyone, IMHO, and doesn't necessarily contradict a healthy dose of self-confidence either. DHH seems to have little of it — at l…

Just because someone isn't skilled at the traditional, mainstream Western methods of conveying empathy doesn't mean they actually lack empathy. This ought to be obvious when considering persons on the extreme end of the autism spectrum, but as time goes on we're learning that the spectrum might subtly encompass far more people than we ever realised.

(With no small amount of irony, I find that many "normal" people have a very hard time truly empathising with the ways in which people on the spectrum are different.)

But it doesn't even have to be something as categorisable as the spectrum. Just as people don't choose their genetics or initial brain chemistry, it's equally true to say that nobody chose their genetic parents or their upbringing. People are the product of their environment; we would do well to keep this in mind even when we (rightly) castigate people for their misdeeds.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#478

Post by otde »

dasudasu wrote: post #417
otde wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really tried not to take the bait here, but come on, dude, that last bit was especially rancid. You do get that we’re real human beings with rich internal lives like everyone else and not shallow, opportunistic crossdressers, yeah? I’d be mortified if I worked with someone who thought like this, and I’m glad I don’t.

You almost certainly do, they just keep silent.

I’m lucky to work for a small company where I am treated with respect by every one of my coworkers and my bosses. They are curious, thoughtful, and kind people, and I don’t need a window into their minds to know they’re not thinking “I could find a better job if I pretended to be trans.” Believe it or not, people are sometimes just kind because it’s the right thing to do.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#479

Post by jdlshore »

Tainnor wrote: post #149
jokethrowaway wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen it happen in a company which was doing just fine. It happened randomly and completely out of the blue: one software engineer mentioned he didn't believe in the gender gap and he was promptly replied 1000 words essays by other leaders in the company shutting him down, to show that "we don't tolerate certain behaviour". Guidelines were created to avoid future political discussions in the workplace. No-one lef…

Maybe. But this is (was) a 60-person company. That's about the size of the company I'm currently working at. In other words, you should know everyone and interact with a sizeable chunk of these people somewhat regularly. It strikes me as very odd that you would suddenly so fundamentally distrust your co-workers with whom you share so much. But I'm also not in the US and maybe this is just the current climate over the…

> (Or maybe it also shows that being a fully-remote company can have downsides, such as coworkers not socialising enough and therefore not trusting each other? Who knows. DHH certainly has championed the "remote work for everyone" approach countless times.)

I’d bet remote work was a strong contributor. People don’t form the same humanizing attachments remotely as they do in person, in my experience.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#480

Post by SvenMarquardt »

etchalon wrote: post #449
JPKab wrote: post #232

Do what I did in February: Quit. Life's too short to waste time at a company that's forgotten it's purpose. This ideology borders on cult like. A good sign that you are dealing with an irrational ideology is non-sensical, illogical and inconsisten rules. For example, in this article, "Black" is capitalized everywhere its mentioned, and "white" isn't. There's nothing logically consistent about this, because it's a bor…

The capitalization of Black is becoming increasingly accepted editorially due to its similarities to otherwise capitalized words like Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Marxist, Irish, etc. Essentially, a culturally distinct body of people. "white" isn't capitalized because it doesn't bear as much similarities to those words, as "white" is not a cultural identity.

> "white" isn't capitalized because it doesn't bear as much similarities to those words

It is precisely the same as black. The mental gymnastics on display here are astonishing.

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